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My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 4:20pm
by soapbox
On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

Re: Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 4:46pm
by PH
Well then, don't tick the box, your choice.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 5:00pm
by rjb
whoever dreamt up such a complicated scheme. The paperwork must keep hundreds of people in employment shuffling paper. If you are a higher rate taxpayer you even get a tax refund from HMRC as well as benefiting your chosen charity. Was this scheme dreamt up by a higher rate tax payer. :roll:

Re: Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 5:09pm
by gaz
soapbox wrote:As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

2017/18 accounts show membership income as about £2.3m, circa 65,500 members and about 30% of members had signed up for Gift Aid.

Modern segregated cycling infrastructure is costed at around £500,000 per km.

It's not clear whether the membership income figure includes Gift Aid, I'll assume not. Average membership cost £35.11. Average Gift Aid value £8.78. Approx annual value of gift Aid to Cycling UK £172,500, or perhaps 0.35km of segregated infrastructure.

I don't know where you think the cake is, I see nothing more than a few crumbs. Even so, if you don't want to tick the box don't tick the box.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 5:10pm
by NUKe
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

Well said we shouldn’t hide from paying taxes

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 29 Dec 2019, 5:53pm
by pwa
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

I see your point. And as it is your tax money, it is your choice.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 30 Dec 2019, 1:52pm
by [XAP]Bob
NUKe wrote:
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

Well said we shouldn’t hide from paying taxes


This isn't hiding from paying taxes, it's the Government offering to support certain organisations which are supported by the people of the country. They do so proportionately to our own support, and with various conditions on the type of recipient organisation.

I have little faith that any money I give to UK.gov will go on sensible infrastructure, I rather suspect that a larger gift aid element going to CUK (other campaign groups exits) is more likely to increase their (tiny) lobbying power to improve conditions for all.

The amount that UK.gov would lose if everyone was a higher rate tax payer and gift aided their CUK membership would still be a rounding error on the smallest element of the UK budget sheet.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 30 Dec 2019, 1:57pm
by hondated
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

What an interesting point you make as I had never thought about it. I naturally assume that by ticking the GA box its helping the charity but not the consequences of doing that.

Re: Gift Aid

Posted: 30 Dec 2019, 3:53pm
by softlips
PH wrote:Well then, don't tick the box, your choice.


Sorted!

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 30 Dec 2019, 6:58pm
by MikeF
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.
Interesting view, but not one I agree with and I think rather naive. Taxes do fund a thousand other things, but many of those I don't want to fund anyway eg HS2, road widening schemes etc. Even taxes spent on the NHS often end in private coffers. On the other hand a number of things I think the government should fund, aren't being funded at all. I am therefore only too happy to allow taxes to fund things I think should be funded, and I do usually tick the gift aid box.

Re: Gift Aid

Posted: 30 Dec 2019, 11:19pm
by The utility cyclist
gaz wrote:
soapbox wrote:As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.

2017/18 accounts show membership income as about £2.3m, circa 65,500 members and about 30% of members had signed up for Gift Aid.

Modern segregated cycling infrastructure is costed at around £500,000 per km.

It's not clear whether the membership income figure includes Gift Aid, I'll assume not. Average membership cost £35.11. Average Gift Aid value £8.78. Approx annual value of gift Aid to Cycling UK £172,500, or perhaps 0.35km of segregated infrastructure.

I don't know where you think the cake is, I see nothing more than a few crumbs. Even so, if you don't want to tick the box don't tick the box.

We all know that the actual cost per mile of infra is an absolute load of pony, white paint costs pennies!

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 31 Dec 2019, 9:36am
by Stradageek
My objection is rather different:

Let's suppose the government decides that cyclist MUST use cycle paths and/or bans cyclists from using roads, arguing that this will reduce congestion because they've worked out that this will be a sure-fire vote winner.

CUK then campaigns strongly against this proposal (as it should).

The government can then simply claim that CUK is no longer a charity but rather a political lobbying group, remove CUK's charitable status and claim back the last 15 years gift aid money (check the small print the IR can do this).

So either CUK backs down or they go bust.

CUK/CTC cannot be both financially dependent on the government and truly independent

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 31 Dec 2019, 2:26pm
by sizbut
Interesting soapbox. Does this mean you also don't contribute to a pension due to the tax relief on that; don't have any ISAs, etc?

The government uses tax exemptions as a means of social engineering, encouraging us to have pensions, save money, give to charity. I think we can rest assured that the revenue has put a lot of work into the cost/benefit analysis of these things and knows that 'raising as much tax as possible' is not always the best option (Laffer curve? Anyone? Anyone?).

Sure its all a mess, twice a year the chancellor and others are encouraged to mess with tax and all things tax related, and of course they do - we a thousand pages of tax code away from ever getting to earn X, pay Y% tax on X simplicity.

The dodgy area is tax avoidance through schemes like paying yourself through some overseas company in which you're the 100% shareholder and such other larks.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 31 Dec 2019, 6:27pm
by rmurphy195
soapbox wrote:On page 12 of the December/January issue of Cycle, there's a column inviting members to agree to Gift Aid, following a campaign over the summer, because it pulls in more revenue for Cycling UK.

I never tick the box for Gift Aid when I give anything to charity and here's why: I'm giving money to charity that I worked for and paid tax on. That tax goes to fund hospitals, schools, the police, emergency workers, council services, and a thousand other things. THAT'S what I want my taxes to go towards and pay for, NOT charities. I give money to charities after I've paid my taxes and they have no right to ask for more.

As a club, we want more funding for cycling infrastructure, whilst at the same time denying the government of our taxes. We can't have our cake and eat it.


I must admit I hadn't thought of it in that light, its so obvious and, once pointed out, makes sense to me.

I won't say I never gift aid, but the way I do it I guess sits somewhere in the middle.

For example I don't gift aid where it actually costs me more e.g. National Trust properties and similar (I'm a NT member anyway but wouldn't pay the gift aid price if I weren't)

I definitley gift aid if there's something in it for me - e.g. some museums will give a years free admission at no extra cost if you sign the forms.

Charities I don't, simply because I'm usually just putting coins in boxes/buckets on shop counters etc. and can't be bothered with the little envelopes.

As for the rest - depends on the day, but in future I'll perhaps be thinking of soapbox' comments and the implications.

Re: My objection to Gift Aid

Posted: 1 Jan 2020, 10:11am
by soapbox
sizbut wrote:Interesting soapbox. Does this mean you also don't contribute to a pension due to the tax relief on that; don't have any ISAs, etc?

The government uses tax exemptions as a means of social engineering, encouraging us to have pensions, save money, give to charity. I think we can rest assured that the revenue has put a lot of work into the cost/benefit analysis of these things and knows that 'raising as much tax as possible' is not always the best option (Laffer curve? Anyone? Anyone?).

Sure its all a mess, twice a year the chancellor and others are encouraged to mess with tax and all things tax related, and of course they do - we a thousand pages of tax code away from ever getting to earn X, pay Y% tax on X simplicity.

The dodgy area is tax avoidance through schemes like paying yourself through some overseas company in which you're the 100% shareholder and such other larks.


This isn't my area of expertise. I contribute the minimum I have to to my company pension, and obviously don't have a say in the contributions I make towards a state pension (which aren't for me, but to pay for those who are already drawing state pension; I will benefit from the next generation of contributors). I don't have ISAs or anything like that. I'm quite low-income and have never really had the spare cash to get involed with anything like that.

Laffer Curve: never heard of it, but I'll look it up. Thanks.

Part of the reason for my post (as it has been in conversaqtions with people during the last couple of days) is to help people think about their taxes. It's on the back of the election, and all that 'free stuff'. The "pay less, get more" fantasy with regard to taxes needs to be questioned more, I think.