Cycling UK statement on Covid19

thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by thirdcrank »

I see that the Q & A linked in the OP has been updated from time-to-time, although the last time was now a month ago (14 Sept.)

Clarity of communication from the top of govt., has been in short supply so it's no surprise to me if there's confusion lower down. eg Rules (in legislation) and advice have been jumbled up as though they were synonymous. (Think HC - the difference between must and should.)
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TrevA
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by TrevA »

PH wrote:
TrevA wrote:So, the rules have changed again. I’m in a Tier 2 area where the Rule of 6 applies outside but there’s no mixing of households inside. So we can still ride in groups of 6 but the cafe stop is likely to cause problems, as we can’t mix inside.

It's impossible to make much sense of it, I'm just up the road from you and in a area rated as medium. So does the local restriction apply based on where you live or where the cafe stop is?


Yes, that’s interesting. We are quite close to Leics, which is in the medium Tier 1 category and several of the cafes we regularly go to are in Leics. I’m assuming it’s based on where you live, but it would be useful if it was where the cafe was located. I’m not sure how enforceable it is either. How is the cafe owner or anyone else going to know where you are from?
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thirdcrank
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by thirdcrank »

TrevA wrote: ... I’m not sure how enforceable it is either. How is the cafe owner or anyone else going to know where you are from?


I'm only guessing, but if there's an infection connected with premises, then the tracing system should reveal where all the contacts came from. Whether that works or not is another thing.
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TrevA
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by TrevA »

thirdcrank wrote:
TrevA wrote: ... I’m not sure how enforceable it is either. How is the cafe owner or anyone else going to know where you are from?


I'm only guessing, but if there's an infection connected with premises, then the tracing system should reveal where all the contacts came from. Whether that works or not is another thing.


But there’s a choice to sit inside or outside, and whilst contact details are taken, I’m pretty sure they don’t keep a record of who sat where, or that we were part of a group. Household groups and individuals can still sit inside cafes under Tier 2, and there are also no restrictions on travel to another county.
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mjr »

Some take note of where you sit and thereby who is a group and some don't. There doesn't seem to be much consistency in track-and-trace, which is probably part of the current problems.

TrevA wrote:So we can still ride in groups of 6 but the cafe stop is likely to cause problems, as we can’t mix inside. So it’s either no stop club rides, rides with a cafe stop but sit outside (brrrrrrrr!) or sit inside but apart from each other, which not many cafes are set up for. Or go old school, carry a flask and sandwiches in your saddlebag.

I don't see the problem. This time of year, you need to be kitted out for possible long stops in the cold anyway, in case of serious mechanical problems or worse, so what's the difficulty in sitting outside? And if you're carrying a picnic, you need cold-weather kit then anyway.

The main problem now is rainy days where there's not enough outdoor shelter at the stop for distancing.
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TrevA
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by TrevA »

Went out on today’s club ride. Obeyed the rules and sat outside at the cafe. It wasn’t too bad weather wise but we did start to feel the cold, not helped by slow service at the cafe, who took 15 minutes to bring our drinks out. It was just about OK, but it’s going to get much colder than it was today - about 9 degrees C at the cafe stop.

We were just over the border in Lincs at the cafe, and they were unaware of the Tier 2 rules.
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arnsider
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by arnsider »

At first, I was a bit confused as to cycling restrictions in respect to social distancing and mask-wearing, or the possibility of an accident placing strain on A&E.
The first considerations are somewhat academic since no one in their right mind rides up close to another (Unless of course, you are a road club rider when you hog the road line abreast!) and in the fresh air, travelling at much more than walking pace, the chances of airborne transmission are negligible.
The second consideration seems to be unfairly placed at our feet since a huge proportion of commerce of no urgency or exigency just carries on in lockdown as if nothing changed. I use for example the plethora of non-essential home improvements by contractors from away, the delivery of junk mail by the post office and the increasing amount of non-essential traffic generated by online shopping. All involving the transit of people and goods potentially carrying the virus.
Now, why do the authorities put the fear of God in us individuals whilst turning a blind eye to equally risky behaviour????
If someone living in say London, wants to cycle, are they seriously supposed to ride from their doorsteps with the risks posed by the relentless and appalling traffic coupled with the filth one has to breathe, being a requirement?
I'm sorry, but until this incompetent government lose their sheer hypocrisy then I will carry on using my common sense.
I hear it from a friend of mine that the Police in Wells have been turning cars back and fining people if they've come a couple of miles.
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mjr »

CyclIng UK have published/updated the wonderfully opaque https://www.cyclinguk.org/news/coronavirus-advice-and-guidance-cycling-uk-member-and-affiliate-groups

It says "group rides of more than six are allowed from 29 March onwards under the organised sport and activity exemption. [...] 15 people [...] absolute maximum for group rides, not a target number, and that people should exercise some discretion and common sense depending on where they are riding."

I interpret that as they would rather you stuck to 6, which you will need to break into for cafe stops at first anyway, but they will back groups up to 15 if needed.
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PH
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by PH »

It is messy, I think my MG has asked for clarification. The advice for sporting events isn't necessarily appropriate for leisure rides. It's useful to know what's permitted, but our ride organisers are likely to take that and decide what numbers they're comfortable with, for myself that's going to remain as six for the foreseeable.
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mjr »

PH wrote: 24 Mar 2021, 12:44pm It is messy, I think my MG has asked for clarification.
Do you know if they got it?

Another thing I am wondering is when a small group arrives at a coffee shop and another small group is still queued outside waiting to finish all being served, is that an illegal gathering or just a shop queue?

We had 4 groups of max 6 last weekend and only three stop options and then everyone chose the same one anyway! I bet that's the longest queue they've had in ages. This weekend we only have two stop options but we have announced two start times to try to avoid a repeat.

And then afterwards, how far away do you have to take your coffee? It's not easy to ride carrying one. I've tried and had a nice coffee shower before.
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drossall
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by drossall »

Surely a lot of this stuff is about principles and context, and not precise rules? And it's down to common-sense in Police enforcement too.

So, if three groups from different clubs coincidentally turn up at the same place, and do their best to queue in a socially-distanced way, that's going to happen. If best efforts to have groups from the same club stop at different places or times fail, and those groups obviously keep apart, as opposed to gathering close to each other with the minimum gaps they think credible, fine. Just genuinely do your best to follow the guidance, and work out what that means in your situation. That's what everyone else is having to do.
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mattheus »

drossall wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 12:29pm Surely a lot of this stuff is about principles and context, and not precise rules? And it's down to common-sense in Police enforcement too.

So, if three groups from different clubs coincidentally turn up at the same place, and do their best to queue in a socially-distanced way, that's going to happen. If best efforts to have groups from the same club stop at different places or times fail, and those groups obviously keep apart, as opposed to gathering close to each other with the minimum gaps they think credible, fine. Just genuinely do your best to follow the guidance, and work out what that means in your situation. That's what everyone else is having to do.
Sounds good to me!
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mjr »

drossall wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 12:29pmJust genuinely do your best to follow the guidance, and work out what that means in your situation. That's what everyone else is having to do.
Posting here to ask a wider audience of experienced group riders is part of doing my best to work out what it is. Thanks for your views.
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PH
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by PH »

mjr wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 11:44am
PH wrote: 24 Mar 2021, 12:44pm It is messy, I think my MG has asked for clarification.
Do you know if they got it?
Yes, there's been a good deal of information, this has come via the MG's secretary and been passed on. there was also an informative webinar last week.
I'm not acting as a go between on a forum, if your group isn't getting the information and support from the membership dept, they need to be looking at why that is.
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mjr
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Re: Cycling UK statement on Covid19

Post by mjr »

PH wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 1:47pm I'm not acting as a go between on a forum, if your group isn't getting the information and support from the membership dept, they need to be looking at why that is.
No-one asked you to. It's perfectly obvious why the group I ride with doesn't get the support from CUK: the CN/CUK memorandum seems not to be worth the paper it was written on any more, but that's only one of CN's many problems right now. As someone who proposed a couple of times that a group affiliate with CUK, but was blocked, I'm still interested in whether CUK HQ is delivering that support for things like this. Thanks for the info.

Of course, it also means the local "naughty" CUK affiliates don't have much excuse for doing the wrong thing.
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