Disagreement with AGM resolutions

MattHodges
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Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby MattHodges » 4 Aug 2020, 11:01pm

Apart from the proposed membership changes other resolutions are very detrimental to the nature of our club.

Resolution 5 is also disconcerting increasing as it will the power of the trustees to ignore the membership. As it says - the the effect of part 1 of the resolution is to remove the requirement to have a proper AGM. Another part increases the power of the trustees to co-opt more trustees. When taken together with the requirement for anyone standing as an elected trustee to be approved by the nominations committee this further concentrates power in the hands of the trustees and reduces members ability to scrutinise their actions.

Resolution 6. Stopping promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying (yes the wording says reduce and ultimately stop) Effectively this means they are trying to stop cyclists touring in far off countries. Many members have toured in India or Australia. Could they have done that without flying there and back? How can cyclists tour in Australia, New Zealand or the Americas without flying? Ultimately this resolution will stop CTC Holidays from running tours in far away places - and stop companies who do run such tours advertising in the magazine. This is an attack on the very basis of our Cyclists' Touring Club. I have only ever had two holidays involving flying and they weren’t cycling holidays but to try and stop cyclists touring in this way is an attack on the history and purpose of the club and its members.

Sadly CTC rebranded as Cycling UK is no longer a club for members who enjoy cycling it is a political campaigning vehicle for a bunch of trustees who use members to support their own agenda. Is this why you and other members joined CTC? It's certainly not the CTC I joined.

Of course it is up to each individual member to decide how to vote but it is certainly appropriate to encourage members to read the resolutions very carefully and to point out the problems with them and to encourage members to then vote and not to allow the chair of the meeting to choose how to cast their vote. In this time of limited meeting with other members I also think local member groups should help circulate members views on the forthcoming national AGM. I will be t
trying to encourage the members of my member group to check the resolutions and to VOTE.

Matt

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Graham
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Graham » 5 Aug 2020, 8:33am

MattHodges wrote:Resolution 6. Stopping promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying (yes the wording says reduce and ultimately stop)

Thank for bringing that to my attention.
It's great to see Cycling UK taking a principled stand on this.
Surely, people must understand that burning massive amounts of fossil-fuels to fulfil our every whim is environmentally unsustainable ( and inexcusable ).

One might expect that folks who tour around on bicycles would be very aware of their (low) environmental impact and would likely seek to minimise their use of fuel-burning motors to assist their experiences.

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Paulatic
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Paulatic » 5 Aug 2020, 8:52am

Graham wrote:
MattHodges wrote:Resolution 6. Stopping promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying (yes the wording says reduce and ultimately stop)

Thank for bringing that to my attention.
It's great to see Cycling UK taking a principled stand on this.
Surely, people must understand that burning massive amounts of fossil-fuels to fulfil our every whim is environmentally unsustainable ( and inexcusable ).

One might expect that folks who tour around on bicycles would be very aware of their (low) environmental impact and would likely seek to minimise their use of fuel-burning motors to assist their experiences.


At last a resolution I agree with and not before time.

One of my biggest disappointments was when CTC used to allow a member’s' 'anti windmill' propaganda a large display area at the Birthday Rides. I was told at the time he was a large financial benefactor to the club and wasn’t to be upset. :(
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Graham
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Graham » 5 Aug 2020, 9:18am

Paulatic wrote:One of my biggest disappointments was when CTC used to allow a member’s' 'anti windmill' propaganda a large display area at the Birthday Rides. I was told at the time he was a large financial benefactor to the club and wasn’t to be upset. :(

That's a classic :lol:
Joe Punter says :-
"I demand electrical power at all times BUT there's no way I'll accept any of the consequential disbenefits - by sight, sound, smell, etc."

"Hide/ignore the bad stuff : out-of-sight : abroad : near the poor people : whatever . . . . and let the future generation sort it out ( if any left )".

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Philip Benstead
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Philip Benstead » 5 Aug 2020, 9:32am

Graham wrote:
MattHodges wrote:Resolution 6. Stopping promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying (yes the wording says reduce and ultimately stop)

Thank for bringing that to my attention.
It's great to see Cycling UK taking a principled stand on this.
Surely, people must understand that burning massive amounts of fossil-fuels to fulfil our every whim is environmentally unsustainable ( and inexcusable ).

One might expect that folks who tour around on bicycles would be very aware of their (low) environmental impact and would likely seek to minimise their use of fuel-burning motors to assist their experiences.


Should members take a stand against the use of motor vehicles in CUK events then?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

JohnW
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby JohnW » 5 Aug 2020, 10:07am

Philip Benstead wrote:Should members take a stand against the use of motor vehicles in CUK events then?
..................or in any circumstances.

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Graham
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Graham » 5 Aug 2020, 11:05am

Dissuading the use cars is a lot more difficult :-

- Travel by flying is mainly a choice : a whim : avoidable : part of the mass-tourism frenzy with associate bragging rights.

- Travel by motor vehicle is now so deeply embedded in the way we live that it will probably take a generation or two to change peoples thinking/planning and the way we live i.e. (motorised personal travel as my right and ignore the disbenefits ) OR ( I have to do it, because I live here and work there ). . . .

One part of the overall problem is that travel is hugely energy intensive. Where will all the energy come from to replace fossil-fuel ?
( . . . . particularly if we follow this trend of driving ever larger&heavier vehicles [ more bragging rights :wink: ] )

Bonefishblues
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Bonefishblues » 5 Aug 2020, 11:41am

JohnW wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:Should members take a stand against the use of motor vehicles in CUK events then?
..................or in any circumstances.

Or imported bicycles? :wink:

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al_yrpal
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby al_yrpal » 5 Aug 2020, 12:01pm

Poor old CTC, disappearing over the horizon now to please the whims of folk who occasionally venture out on BSOs when its fashionable. Adventure and personal freedom now take the back seat. Glad I left and am no longer subsidising its sucessor.
Tell the 'no fly' mantra to the business community and the ' must go to Spain every summer' brigade, it will have many thousands times the effects. The handful of us that fly abroad to cycle in distant lands do very little damage to the environment especially while we are there.
What has been inflicted on the CTC by the thought police makes me weep.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

profpointy
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby profpointy » 5 Aug 2020, 12:41pm

I allowed my membership to lapse a few years back. I'd been a member for a reasonable number of years primarily to support the organisation as I'd only done one ride with the local group. (Just to be clear they were a lovely lot, and it was an enjoyable day out, but it just didn't quite fit in with other commitments)
I strongly got the impression that the charity transformation was effectively a takeover of what had been a legit mbers' club. Many of the trustees seemed to have little or no background in cycling but were career trustees as it were. They got rid of the "technical expert" role in head office who contributed the most interesting parts of the magazine, which soon went down hill to the extent I'd only bother to unwrap it to stick it straight in the recylcing - I'd previously read it avidly. The latest mentioned by the OP seems to suggest the members are not really part of the organisation anymore, whixh is sad

thirdcrank
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby thirdcrank » 5 Aug 2020, 6:08pm

Several current threads comment on the role of trustees in relation to the interests of members.

I think it's important to understand that trustees have personal duties which lie elsewhere. In particular, they must carry out the aims of the charity for the public good.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... d-to-do#s4

IIRC, during the now long-gone, ancient history charity discussion before the irreversible decision to convert was taken, somebody (simonL6 ?) from the anti conversion group, unearthed correspondence from the Charity Commission in which it was made clear to the CTC leadership that the proposed rules subjecting trustees to a similar level of membership oversight as the old CTC Council would not be acceptable for a charity. Also, IIRC, the CTC leadership asked if it would be ok to keep this under wraps until after the conversion as it might not go down well. (All in my words)
=======================================================================================
Found it. Here's SimonL6 For anybody who didn't believe what he was saying in 2012 or who didn't think it mattered enough to read, it has only historical interest now, but it shows how we got here

viewtopic.php?p=529242#p529242

A lot to read but the second item covers the bit where the leadership thought the information might jeopardize things.

Cyril Haearn
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Cyril Haearn » 5 Aug 2020, 9:11pm

Graham wrote:Dissuading the use cars is a lot more difficult :-

- Travel by flying is mainly a choice : a whim : avoidable : part of the mass-tourism frenzy with associate bragging rights.

- Travel by motor vehicle is now so deeply embedded in the way we live that it will probably take a generation or two to change peoples thinking/planning

Plenty of people can do without a motor, plusplus
Me for example, I just retired and chose to live somewhere on the edge of town with lots of shops nearby
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quack
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby quack » 6 Aug 2020, 1:04pm

Surely the decision of whether to fly or not for a cycling holiday is for individual members to take?

I have taken a bike abroad by air both within Europe and to North America. Where possible, according to the circumstances, I have travelled by ferry and train. In the past I have found information about taking a bike by plane in our magazine and online to be helpful and useful. Does this mean that this will no longer be acceptable content?

Is the use of motor vehicles to transport bikes also viewed as unacceptable?

Is Cycling UK now standing in judgement about the morality of its members' activities ?

Motion 6 needs to be rethought.

AndyK
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby AndyK » 8 Aug 2020, 4:43pm

quack wrote:Surely the decision of whether to fly or not for a cycling holiday is for individual members to take?

I have taken a bike abroad by air both within Europe and to North America. Where possible, according to the circumstances, I have travelled by ferry and train. In the past I have found information about taking a bike by plane in our magazine and online to be helpful and useful. Does this mean that this will no longer be acceptable content?

Is the use of motor vehicles to transport bikes also viewed as unacceptable?

Is Cycling UK now standing in judgement about the morality of its members' activities ?

Motion 6 needs to be rethought.

Can I suggest that you try actually reading motion 6?

The motion (which is a members' motion, incidentally, though the Board accepts its points) calls on Cycling UK to " adopts a progressive strategy to reduce, and ultimately stop, promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying." [my emphasis]

Nowhere does it call on CUK to prevent members from choosing to fly somewhere. Nor does it call on them to stop using cars.

It's even very specific about the type of promotion it wants to see reduced: "CTC branded holidays, which involve flying; articles in the magazine; and the adverts in the magazine selling holidays involving flying." Half the comments here seem to be about a completely different motion that exists only in the heads of the commenters.

quack
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby quack » 8 Aug 2020, 6:15pm

I have indeed read the motion.

It proposes that CUK should "stop the promotion of holidays that involve flying."
Included in the ways in which, it is said, CUK currently supports flying is via articles in the magazine.

The proposal is to reduce and stop CTC branded holidays with any air travel, but also magazine articles and advertising from third parties