Disagreement with AGM resolutions

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CJ
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby CJ » 25 Aug 2020, 3:31pm

Philip Benstead wrote:What conclusions can I draw?

Any you like mate. But for Christ's sake make 'em shorter than your last post or nobody will read them!
Chris Juden
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Philip Benstead » 25 Aug 2020, 3:46pm

CJ wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:What conclusions can I draw?

Any you like mate. But for Christ's sake make 'em shorter than your last post or nobody will read them!


If I do not give the full information I will be accused of distortion.

I was not that long, I expect the members of this forum to have a good attention span.

Chris
What are your conclusions?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
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CJ
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby CJ » 25 Aug 2020, 4:37pm

Philip Benstead wrote:I was not that long, I expect the members of this forum to have a good attention span.

It (not 'I') meaning the message, was precisely "that long", that being as long as it was. And how long was that? FIVE WHOLE SCROLLS of the big screen on my desktop PC! I will read something that long if it's well written, but that wasn't: it was an incoherent mess of copied and pasted emails. So I skimmed it and tried to find some sense in it. (So there went another half-hour of my life I'll never get back!)

My conclusions? That Cycling UK is governed by a bunch of self-serving do-gooders and there's nothing we can do to change that now. But this I knew already.
Chris Juden
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2020, 5:08pm

You also have to read it from the bottom up to get the chronology.
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Tompsk
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Tompsk » 31 Aug 2020, 6:49pm

Duplicate post.
Last edited by Tompsk on 31 Aug 2020, 6:53pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Tompsk » 31 Aug 2020, 6:51pm

I'm very late to this, but from the OP entry:

"Resolution 6. Stopping promotion of cycling holidays that involve flying."

Has the board made an estimate of how many airmiles this would save? It wouldn't be good enough to just say all of them booked through the groups or companies who are connected to CUK as I'm sure many will still trade or take holidays regardless of CUK not promoting them. If they have made a realistic estimate what is it? If no realistic estimate has been made then this is just posturing. The point here is there are probably far better ways of operating CUK to be genuinely green than this headline grabbing resolution that may give a warm feeling but probably does almost nothing. Yes, you do have to start somewhere but I think this has not (yet) been shown to be an effective use of CUKs resources.

It does seem odd CUK are deviating from just promoting cycling, if there is a conflict in future do they promote cycling or green issues? The 2 are not always compatible, e.g cycle roof racks.

Also if someone from the Americas, far east, Japan etc. were to contact CUK about advice on visiting the UK for a cycling holiday what would they say? Perhaps: "Our advice is not to come at all because our constitution forbids us from promoting cycle holidays that involve flying." If they said anything else I assume that would be in contravention of this resolution! (Apologies if the resolution would alow this, I'm only going on the OP text.)

Edit to correct typos.
Last edited by Tompsk on 31 Aug 2020, 10:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

roberts8
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby roberts8 » 31 Aug 2020, 7:36pm

Good point as a large amount of members will ignore this issue and carry on flying when it is the cheapest option as most of us are constrained by finances. Maybe the next step of the Cuk thought police is to delete any posts that discuss the flying option and it is meant tongue in cheek but I do worry about the direction we are going in.

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Neil Wheadon
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Neil Wheadon » 31 Aug 2020, 9:53pm

I manage about 3 a year and have done for the past few years, so here goes
Tompsk wrote:Has the board made an estimate of how many airmiles this would save?

Not as far as I'm aware
Tompsk wrote:I'm sure many will still trade or take holidays regardless of CUK not promoting them

Pretty much all of them to be honest.
Tompsk wrote:If they have made a realistic estimate what is it?

As above
Tompsk wrote:Yes, you do have to start somewhere but I think this has not (yet) been shown to be an effective use of CUKs resources.

It won't cost anything at all, however what it will do is lose revenue that could be used to campaign for other issues
Tompsk wrote:Also if someone from the Americas, far east, Japan etc. were to contact CUK about advice on visiting the UK for a cycling holoday what would they say?

I think this is a great point and another has made this.

I graphed CTC Holidays a few years back, yes we fly but we go for longer. Your average Exodus trip is 7-10 days, the average CTC Holiday 2-3 weeks. In effect we are half the emissions. People make choices in life, and we are lucky that we can. Without a total ban, people will chose, yes someone has to start, but maybe the revenue from a few flights because yes folks it isn't that many could be used to lobby for better rail transport or better provision, because Exodus and Skedaddle aren't going to do that.

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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby PH » 31 Aug 2020, 11:05pm

Neil Wheadon wrote:I graphed CTC Holidays a few years back, yes we fly but we go for longer. Your average Exodus trip is 7-10 days, the average CTC Holiday 2-3 weeks. In effect we are half the emissions.
Neil

That one would take some explaining, two flights is two flights, why would it matter how long the period between them is?

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Neil Wheadon
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Neil Wheadon » 1 Sep 2020, 10:50pm

PH wrote:Neil Wheadon wrote:
I graphed CTC Holidays a few years back, yes we fly but we go for longer. Your average Exodus trip is 7-10 days, the average CTC Holiday 2-3 weeks. In effect we are half the emissions.
Neil

That one would take some explaining, two flights is two flights, why would it matter how long the period between them is?


A person has 3 weeks holidays
ONE CTC Holidays, 2 flights
TWO EXODUS Holidays, 4 flights

Neil
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AndyK
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby AndyK » 1 Sep 2020, 11:07pm

Neil Wheadon wrote:
PH wrote:Neil Wheadon wrote:
I graphed CTC Holidays a few years back, yes we fly but we go for longer. Your average Exodus trip is 7-10 days, the average CTC Holiday 2-3 weeks. In effect we are half the emissions.
Neil

That one would take some explaining, two flights is two flights, why would it matter how long the period between them is?


A person has 3 weeks holidays
ONE CTC Holidays, 2 flights
TWO EXODUS Holidays, 4 flights

Neil

I don't think it works like that. You're assuming that British cyclists only ever take holidays abroad, never at home, and that there is some magical "quota" for the minimum number of days that someone must spend going on foreign holidays during the year. That's simply not true (unless you're a tax exile, perhaps).

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Neil Wheadon
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby Neil Wheadon » 1 Sep 2020, 11:23pm

AndyK wrote:I don't think it works like that. You're assuming that British cyclists only ever take holidays abroad, never at home, and that there is some magical "quota" for the minimum number of days that someone must spend going on foreign holidays during the year. That's simply not true (unless you're a tax exile, perhaps).


I've never said that
For years I organized 5 trips a year, catering for families mostly with UK camping trips twice a year. Combine that with lots of Tandem Club events.
Nothing to do with a quota, just a statement of fact. If you spend longer abroad having flown the time spent flying there and also the miles are less, it's simple maths.
We have a great friend and he runs the 'Buckley Formula' If you spend more than an hour per day of holiday getting there it's not worth it. A CTC Holiday does that, many other holiday companies don't fit that criteria :D
Neil
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AndyK
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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby AndyK » 2 Sep 2020, 12:33am

Neil Wheadon wrote:
AndyK wrote:I don't think it works like that. You're assuming that British cyclists only ever take holidays abroad, never at home, and that there is some magical "quota" for the minimum number of days that someone must spend going on foreign holidays during the year. That's simply not true (unless you're a tax exile, perhaps).


I've never said that
For years I organized 5 trips a year, catering for families mostly with UK camping trips twice a year. Combine that with lots of Tandem Club events.
Nothing to do with a quota, just a statement of fact. If you spend longer abroad having flown the time spent flying there and also the miles are less, it's simple maths.
We have a great friend and he runs the 'Buckley Formula' If you spend more than an hour per day of holiday getting there it's not worth it. A CTC Holiday does that, many other holiday companies don't fit that criteria :D
Neil

Sorry, I'm still not seeing the logic at all. Comparing one CTC holiday with two Exodus holidays a year is not a fair comparison. It's not an either/or choice that many people make in the real world, not least because the latter would probably cost a lot more than the former. It's far more likely that someone would be choosing between having one Exodus holiday or one CTC holiday. And as PH pointed out, two flights is two flights, regardless of whether the gap between them is a bit longer.

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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby PH » 2 Sep 2020, 10:45am

Neil Wheadon wrote:
PH wrote:Neil Wheadon wrote:
I graphed CTC Holidays a few years back, yes we fly but we go for longer. Your average Exodus trip is 7-10 days, the average CTC Holiday 2-3 weeks. In effect we are half the emissions.
Neil

That one would take some explaining, two flights is two flights, why would it matter how long the period between them is?


A person has 3 weeks holidays
ONE CTC Holidays, 2 flights
TWO EXODUS Holidays, 4 flights

Neil

No, it doesn't work like that.
Those who choose a three week holiday do so because they can afford it, both in time and financial terms. So you may as well argue that you're catering for people who are more likely to take multiple flying holidays a year.
We have a great friend and he runs the 'Buckley Formula' If you spend more than an hour per day of holiday getting there it's not worth it.

What a shame that any trip contains any part that isn't worth it, for me it's all included, my holidays start at the front door (Some of my work colleagues may suggest they start several days before...) I absolutely love flying, if it wasn't so irresponsible I'd do so at every opportunity, maybe if I'd flown as frequently as you the novelty would have worn off, which would be a disappointment in itself. As it I haven't not been able to get anywhere I want in Europe with combinations of bike, train, coach and ferry, and those trips have always felt part of the holiday.

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Re: Disagreement with AGM resolutions

Postby roberts8 » 2 Sep 2020, 6:07pm

I think Neil raises some good points and I would love a response from whoever proposed this and the thought of getting to The Med with a bike is possible but a joke.