Non member on group run

pedals2slowly
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby pedals2slowly » 15 Aug 2020, 10:24pm

PH wrote:but the question won't arise because the MG can't register an affiliated member as a ride leader.


An affiliated member has a CUK membership number so yes they can be registered and lead a member group ride.
(I'm glad you didn't mention the I word :wink: )

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Re: Non member on group run

Postby PH » 15 Aug 2020, 11:01pm

pedals2slowly wrote:
PH wrote:but the question won't arise because the MG can't register an affiliated member as a ride leader.


An affiliated member has a CUK membership number so yes they can be registered and lead a member group ride.
(I'm glad you didn't mention the I word :wink: )

No, it's not the same number.

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Re: Non member on group run

Postby PH » 15 Aug 2020, 11:05pm

And from the ride leaders handbook, which really you could have found for yourself
NOTE: Cycling UK Member Group Ride Leaders must be paid-up individual full members of Cycling UK

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gaz
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby gaz » 15 Aug 2020, 11:06pm

PH wrote:gaz is the man for finding the documentation, ...

Challenge accepted, although I see PH found it whilst I was typing. Ride Leader Handbook.
RideLeader1.png
RLH, Page 16
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

pedals2slowly
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby pedals2slowly » 15 Aug 2020, 11:20pm

But that is ambiguous.

A member of an affiliated club is not a full member. (But is insured to lead rides for that affiliated club)
A member of an affiliated club who has also paid the affiliated CUK membership fee IS a full CUK member and therefore can lead a member group ride.
The only difference between individual affiliated club member CUK membership is that you do not receive the CUK magazine.

I will email CUK for confirmation.

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gaz
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby gaz » 15 Aug 2020, 11:22pm

To complicate things further the "Membership Types" page on the website could easily be interpreted as only including individual adult and senior members as "full" members.
RLH2.png
Who qualifies as a "full" member?

Somewhere the Trustees have a mysterious document entitled the "Cycling UK Membership Benefits Table", which I first heard of in 2013 but have never seen. AIUI the document sets out the rights and responsibilities of each category of membership.

Not only can affiliated members not lead MG rides, they cannot vote in either MG or national meetings and (I presume) cannot sit on an MG's committee.
2020 : To redundancy ... and beyond!

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gaz
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby gaz » 15 Aug 2020, 11:28pm

pedals2slowly wrote:I will email CUK for confirmation.

Jules15 wrote:Hi it's Julie, CTC Member Group Coordinator here. Just to clarify the position regarding affiliate members on Member Group rides. I believe it was decided a while ago, after this motion was proposed at the 2011 CTC AGM:

7 Proposed by Brian Lowe, seconded by Robert Thompson That by the 2012 AGM, Council should review which classes of CTC member should enjoy the benefit of an unrestricted right to ride with any CTC member group, recognising the rights of Full Members and the burden on volunteers of allowing participation by those who do not have Full Membership.
Carried: For 9,131 Against 814 Abstain 1,232


that affiliated members would be allowed to ride with CTC Member Groups. However, they are not given voting rights nor are they permitted to hold voluntary roles within the local group. Thus the membership lists that go out to each group every month contain details of affiliated members, except for October's lists as these are used by Member Groups to verify who has voting rights at each group's AGM in Oct or Nov.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Ride Leader is a voluntary role (my emphasis). Unless the position has changed since 2011 you'll get the same answer.
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby PH » 15 Aug 2020, 11:44pm

pedals2slowly wrote:A member of an affiliated club who has also paid the affiliated CUK membership fee IS a full CUK member and therefore can lead a member group ride.

EDIT - I give up, you have the answer in black and white and still you want to argue.

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mjr
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby mjr » 16 Aug 2020, 12:06am

PH wrote:
pedals2slowly wrote:A member of an affiliated club who has also paid the affiliated CUK membership fee IS a full CUK member and therefore can lead a member group ride.

EDIT - I give up, you have the answer in black and white and still you want to argue.

I think it's more that CUK have spread confusion by calling them "affiliated members" in the past, when they are not really members.

pedals2slowly: those who have paid what is now called "Individual affiliation" (£26) are not full members of CUK.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

pedals2slowly
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby pedals2slowly » 16 Aug 2020, 8:33am

gaz wrote:
pedals2slowly wrote:I will email CUK for confirmation.

Jules15 wrote:Hi it's Julie, CTC Member Group Coordinator here. Just to clarify the position regarding affiliate members on Member Group rides. I believe it was decided a while ago, after this motion was proposed at the 2011 CTC AGM:

7 Proposed by Brian Lowe, seconded by Robert Thompson That by the 2012 AGM, Council should review which classes of CTC member should enjoy the benefit of an unrestricted right to ride with any CTC member group, recognising the rights of Full Members and the burden on volunteers of allowing participation by those who do not have Full Membership.
Carried: For 9,131 Against 814 Abstain 1,232


that affiliated members would be allowed to ride with CTC Member Groups. However, they are not given voting rights nor are they permitted to hold voluntary roles within the local group. Thus the membership lists that go out to each group every month contain details of affiliated members, except for October's lists as these are used by Member Groups to verify who has voting rights at each group's AGM in Oct or Nov.

Hope this clarifies the situation.

Ride Leader is a voluntary role (my emphasis). Unless the position has changed since 2011 you'll get the same answer.


Thanks, that is the first piece of verifiable information guys, the rest is mostly hearsay or personal interpretation.
CUK sinks yet further in my estimation, as the CUK website states in their affiliate member joining page ' Member of an affiliated group that have a current Cycling UK group membership. Affiliate member benefits excludes legal assistance, magazine and voting rights.'
I have been pushing local cycling cub members to join CUK on this basis, and was considering switching my membership to this as I get the magazine anyway as the named person on the affiliated club membership. I think there are a couple more who lead Member group rides, and we have joint member group/affiliated club rides as well just to muddy the waters.
I shall retain my 'full' membership, not that I'm worried about the insurance but I don't want people put off riding if they think they can't sue the ride leader :lol:

pedals2slowly
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Re: Non member on group run

Postby pedals2slowly » 16 Aug 2020, 8:37am

Actually our joint rides memorandum of understanding states that if an affiliate member is leading the ride is an affiliate club ride and if a member group rider is leading it is a member group ride.

Not letting affiliate members lead member group rides obviously makes no sense whatsoever from an insurance point of view

Hey-ho onwards and upwards