CTC Trustee Elections 2020

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Philip Benstead
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CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Philip Benstead » 3 Oct 2020, 9:15pm

Its that time of year again. I note two out of three existing trustees are not up for election .

I am dispointed there is so little choice . We have four candidate for three places.

Did so few members decided to stand or is it we are given a false choice to make it seem to be a democratic process?
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

AstaHR
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby AstaHR » 5 Oct 2020, 4:56pm

The election by members of three new Trustees appears to me to be another 'stich-up' by the Trustee Body and its Nominations Committee.

Just look at the order of the presentation of candidates and the diminishing length of each endorsement by the Nominations . Jacqueline gets 3cm and the poor old Doc gets a sentence. Sam and Robin do slightly better than the Doc.

Come on Peter Fitizboyden and your fellows, why don't you just tell us outright who we should vote for.

This entire process is a farce. As far as I can determine, there is no validation of the reported information that the candidates submit. There referees are probably 'tame' and not candid - if contacted at all.

Despite the Trustees stating that they are trying to secure essential skills, it looks more like they're keen to maintain the unsatisfactory status quo rather than shift the dreadful culture introduced by Paul Tuohy to something that achieves a better balance between member interests and the pointless and some of the unmeasurable campaigns that CUK embarks upon each year.



Alan Staniforth

dinnydom
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby dinnydom » 5 Oct 2020, 11:20pm

The nominations committee have approved only four candidates for three vacancies .Hardly seems worth incurring the expense of running an election then .As an ordinary member I think this club reflects the views of trustees rather than the members .I will cease being a cash cow at next renewal membership time .Bye bye

Simon P
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Simon P » 6 Oct 2020, 10:37am

Blimey - even the Labour Party can't stitch up internal elections so completely as CUK. It says there were "a significant number of high-quality applications" but we're left with just 4 candidates for 3 positions. Local groups should be balloted to choose the shortlist, which should be at least twice the number of candidates as positions. But don't leave - ORGANISE!

Richard Fairhurst
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 6 Oct 2020, 2:35pm

For what it's worth, Robin is excellent - a tourer, a campaigner, and someone with the skillset that a CUK trustee needs - and I would vote for him whether there were 4 candidates or 4000.
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roger
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby roger » 6 Oct 2020, 3:37pm

Thank you for that, Richard. When we had local councillors it made it easier when making the decision on whom to vote for, local knowledge was a great help. Post election there was easy access to an informant with knowledge of what was happening, an ear to burn .
Currently, I know where two of the candidates come from and have vague memories from previous candidate statements of where the succesful candidates hail from. MPs hold surgeries in their constituencies, perhaps out trustees could attend AGM's as councillors as did councillors did. Have any attended the Birthday Rides, Paul Tuohy did?
If they are not communicating with members one wonders how they know what is actually happening on the roads.In the days of the Japanese revival it was said that even the floor sweepers can have opinions and good ideas.
Time to brush up the CTC trading as......

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Oct 2020, 5:18pm

roger wrote:Thank you for that, Richard. When we had local councillors it made it easier when making the decision on whom to vote for, local knowledge was a great help. Post election there was easy access to an informant with knowledge of what was happening, an ear to burn .
Currently, I know where two of the candidates come from and have vague memories from previous candidate statements of where the succesful candidates hail from. MPs hold surgeries in their constituencies, perhaps out trustees could attend AGM's as councillors as did councillors did. Have any attended the Birthday Rides, Paul Tuohy did?
If they are not communicating with members one wonders how they know what is actually happening on the roads.In the days of the Japanese revival it was said that even the floor sweepers can have opinions and good ideas.
Time to brush up the CTC trading as......


It should be noted that the Tustee are not required to communicat with MEMBERS. Their role is to hold the excutive to account for implementation the policy and strategy the trustees produced.

CUK is a membership charity and not a membership organisation unfortunately..
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Jdsk
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Jdsk » 6 Oct 2020, 5:30pm

Philip Benstead wrote:CUK is a membership charity and not a membership organisation unfortunately..

It's a company limited by guarantee and has members. What's your definition of "membership organisation" that excludes that?

Thanks

Jonathan

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Oct 2020, 5:41pm

Jdsk wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:CUK is a membership charity and not a membership organisation unfortunately..

It's a company limited by guarantee and has members. What's your definition of "membership organisation" that excludes that?

Thanks

Jonathan


The duty of Trustees is to do what in their opinion is good for the charity NOT for the members.

Membership charities and Membership organisations ae different, I do like it but that is how it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_organization

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 7atext.pdf
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Jdsk
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Jdsk » 6 Oct 2020, 5:56pm

Philip Benstead wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_organization

What part of that excludes a company limited by guarantee with members from being a membership organisation?

And if you think that Wikipedia is an adequate authority for this sort of discussion have a look at:
"Private company limited by guarantee"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_company_limited_by_guarantee
and especially the list of types, which starts:
"Common uses of companies limited by guarantee include clubs, membership organisations, including students' unions, residential property management companies, sports associations (such as the PGA European Tour), workers' co-operatives, other social enterprises, non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and charities (such as Oxfam), and at least one political party (the UK Independence Party)."
My emboldening.

Your posts above describe a false dichotomy.

Philip Benstead wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_organization
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 7atext.pdf

That's from 2004, before the existence of charitable incorporated organisations and therefore badly out of date.

Jonathan

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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Oct 2020, 6:06pm

Jdsk wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_organization

What part of that excludes a company limited by guarantee with members from being a membership organisation?

And if you think that Wikipedia is an adequate authority for this sort of discussion have a look at:
"Private company limited by guarantee"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_company_limited_by_guarantee
and especially the list of types, which starts:
"Common uses of companies limited by guarantee include clubs, membership organisations, including students' unions, residential property management companies, sports associations (such as the PGA European Tour), workers' co-operatives, other social enterprises, non-governmental organizations (NGOs) and charities (such as Oxfam), and at least one political party (the UK Independence Party)."
My emboldening.

Your posts above describe a false dichotomy.

Philip Benstead wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membership_organization

The general point I am making is that CUK consider itself a charity and is working for the greater good. I know it is a also a company limited by guarantee and all that involved but the member is a very poor secondary to it consideration

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 7atext.pdf

That's from 2004, before the existence of charitable incorporated organisations and therefore badly out of date.

Jonathan
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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gaz
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby gaz » 6 Oct 2020, 7:49pm

roger wrote:... When we had local councillors it made it easier when making the decision on whom to vote for, local knowledge was a great help. ...

Hmm, I remember local councillors. More often than not you didn't even have to decide who to vote for because there weren't enough candidates to require a vote.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Oct 2020, 8:43pm

gaz wrote:
roger wrote:... When we had local councillors it made it easier when making the decision on whom to vote for, local knowledge was a great help. ...

Hmm, I remember local councillors. More often than not you didn't even have to decide who to vote for because there weren't enough candidates to require a vote.
Image


Yes, but it was originally agreed at a CTC council meeting and confirmed at CTC AGM that under the new system any members could stand for in the trustee election this was overturned by PT with the agreement of a Councillor who in charge of the new system of election. I could name names but I won't.

Now we have system that prevent a real choice of candidates.
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

AndyK
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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby AndyK » 6 Oct 2020, 11:40pm

I'm a trustee and a member of the Nominations Committee. I'm just reaching the end of my term and as I decided not to stand again, I was involved in reviewing the applications from would-be trustees.

The committee would have preferred to have more candidates to offer, but... well. I will not say anything specific about this year's applicants, but I will make the general point that in situations like this (and this is in chaities generally) you usually get a few who are obvious CV-padders - people who think their careers will be boosted by being able to put "charity trustee" on their LinkedIn profile. Some of these display a quite stunning sense of arrogance and entitlement in their applications. There will also be some who are enthusiastic and interesting but don't appear to offer the relevant skills and experience that we're looking for. This is a trickier one and opinions differ on how much "pruning" should be done, so we generally have to come to a compromise.

We do a lot of thinking about what skills and experience are needed to compliment the range already on the board and that matters because we have to govern a sizeable charity. Ideally we need someone who knows about finance, someone who knows about government policy, someone who knows about "behaviour change", about public health, about IT strategy, about charity income generation, etc etc... and yes, some trustees who are tuned into the membership and the local groups. Because that way we can keep a critical, informed and (hopefully) helpful eye on all aspects of what Cycling UK is doing.

As trustees we have a legal duty to ensure that we have a well-balanced, capable and diverse board. As I said on here quite recently, opening up another space for a co-opted trustee should help with that in the long term without changing the built-in majority for elected trustees, but the fact remains we have that duty and it applies to all trustees, elected or co-opted.

I am pleased to see that Phil is grasping some of the realities of how Cycling UK is supposed to work, but he's not right to say the trustees aren't answerable to the membership. They are, but the members also have a moral duty to pick the trustees who will do the best job to ensure good governance of the charity and advance its public benefit aims. Benefits for the membership are only justifiable if they fit within those aims.

If you're a member, your job is not to pick the candidate who you think will do the most for you personally. That's not how membership charities work. This is not a private club.

Something else I have to correct in case Phil's note gave the wrong impression: the chief executive does not get to decide who gets stands for election as a trustee. Maybe things were different back when Phil was a trustee, I wasn't around for that, but it's certainly not how we do things now.

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Re: CTC Trustee Elections 2020

Postby AndyK » 6 Oct 2020, 11:58pm

AstaHR wrote:The election by members of three new Trustees appears to me to be another 'stich-up' by the Trustee Body and its Nominations Committee.

Just look at the order of the presentation of candidates and the diminishing length of each endorsement by the Nominations . Jacqueline gets 3cm and the poor old Doc gets a sentence. Sam and Robin do slightly better than the Doc.

Come on Peter Fitizboyden and your fellows, why don't you just tell us outright who we should vote for.

This entire process is a farce. As far as I can determine, there is no validation of the reported information that the candidates submit. There referees are probably 'tame' and not candid - if contacted at all.

Despite the Trustees stating that they are trying to secure essential skills, it looks more like they're keen to maintain the unsatisfactory status quo rather than shift the dreadful culture introduced by Paul Tuohy to something that achieves a better balance between member interests and the pointless and some of the unmeasurable campaigns that CUK embarks upon each year.

Alan Staniforth

"It's all a conspiracy by Paul Tuohy and his mates to - oh, he's gone. Right then, it's all a conspiracy by Pete Fitzboyden and his mates to - what? he's only temporary? OK, it's all a conspiracy by..."

Maybe, just maybe, there is no conspiracy. Maybe the trustees are all people who care about cycling and about what Cycling UK does, and are, in their various ways, trying to do their duty as trustees and do the right thing for the charity. I'll just put that out there as a thought, speaking as someone who is a trustee and knows the other trustees.

But then I'm obviously part of the conspiracy, so best not to listen to me. The pedal-powered black helicopters will be along shortly. 8)

Oh, and about the "unmeasurable" campaigns? There is more work going on to measure the impact of campaigns, projects, etc. That does take money and time - both for volunteeers and staff - to get right, as it means collecting and analysing data regularly, but it will be worth it in the long run as we gain a better picture of what works and what doesn't. The "key performance indicators" trailed at the AGM are part of that. It's something that the organisation hasn't been that great at doing in the past but it's improving.