No more CTC technical officer ** NO HOAX **

beardy
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby beardy » 27 Dec 2014, 11:47pm

Another thought was that CTC and BC, instead of being in competition with each other, could join campaigning forces and resources, and sing from the same hymnsheet all of the time.


But cyclists are not all of the same mind about what they want.
BC's hymnsheet sings of compulsory helmets for any ride that they can get control of.

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RickH
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby RickH » 28 Dec 2014, 12:33am

beardy wrote:
Another thought was that CTC and BC, instead of being in competition with each other, could join campaigning forces and resources, and sing from the same hymnsheet all of the time.


But cyclists are not all of the same mind about what they want.
BC's hymnsheet sings of compulsory helmets for any ride that they can get control of.

It depends which part of BC. For racing yes helmets are compulsory & it isn't surprising to find that trickling down to lower levels of the sporting side.

However, on BC's Skyride branded rides helmets are only "advised" on the "local" rides for over 18s (I'm afraid they are compulsory for under 18s & also ride leaders). On the Big Bike Events - the closed road city/town centre rides - there is no more than an advisory
Skyride Big Bike Event FAQs wrote:What shall I bring on the day?
Print out the email we sent you confirming your registration and bring it with you so we can scan your barcode and swap it for a Sky Ride lanyard. Make sure you bring your bike (unless you’ve arranged some bike hire – check if it’s available at your event)! You might also think about bringing a helmet, a puncture repair kit and pump, a waterproof jacket (our rides go ahead rain or shine), some snacks and a drink. And it’s fine to bring kids’ bike trailers too.

...

Do I have to wear a helmet and a high-viz bib?
It's not compulsory to wear a helmet or high-viz bib at Sky Ride events. However British Cycling recommends wearing a correctly fitted helmet when riding a bike, whilst recognising the right of each individual to choose whether or not to accept this recommendation and the limit to the protection helmets provide. British Cycling’s ultimate aim is to create a safer cycling environment remembering that the safest places in the world to cycle also have the lowest rates of helmet use. (link click on FAQ)

Their safety spokesman, Chris Boardman, doesn't exactly sing the "helmets for all" mantra either.

On the original topic is seems slightly ironic that a local group is considering severing ties with CTC when CTC seems to be moving away from centralised resources towards encouraging local groups.

Whilst acknowledging CJ's technical contributions are invaluable, if the direct enquiries regarding technical and touring matters are no longer sufficient to employ full time staff in those roles then, hard as it might be, it may be time for a reorganisation at HQ. BTW I have no inside knowledge whether that is the case or not.

Rick.

JohnW
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby JohnW » 28 Dec 2014, 12:29pm

beardy wrote:
Another thought was that CTC and BC, instead of being in competition with each other, could join campaigning forces and resources, and sing from the same hymnsheet all of the time.


But cyclists are not all of the same mind about what they want.
BC's hymnsheet sings of compulsory helmets for any ride that they can get control of.


Yes, absolutely beardy, I referred only to campaigning. I think that campaigning is costly and difficult and we're better joining forces and putting resources together - if we can agree. Two matchsticks tied together are stronger than two separate and miles apart.

BC wouldn't be in control of CTC rides.

It's all very complicated and a fraught question, but it'll take some strength and determination to get the government to do what their splather says.

Remember that a lot of us are worrying that the CTC is moving away from it's founding raison d'etre.

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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby Vorpal » 28 Dec 2014, 12:52pm

Whilst I can see some point (and combined strength) in an alliance between BC and CTC, I'm not sure that it is a good idea. The main reason was one of Chris Juden's main bugbears. That's the idea of cycling as a sport. While I didn't agree 100 % with him on this issue, I do think that it is a very important point, and an alliance between the two organisations brings greater risk of sidelining cycling as a means of transport for everyone.

It is so important for the health of transport and people in general to get more people out of cars and onto bikes. When cycling is seen as the domain of sports enthusiasts, many people will never consider it a form of transport. An alliance between BC and CTC won't help that. BC is first and foremost a sports organisation.
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thirdcrank
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Dec 2014, 1:15pm

But the CTC already dabbles in racing.

I think it's only been the increased availability of motor transport that has caused gaps between the different types of cycling. There must be plenty of people on here, perhaps towards the older end, who were members of the CTC, RTTC, BCF, RSF and YHA. The BCF has not always been in the strong position it is in today. Not so very long ago, when it looked as though the BCF was about to go belly up, the CTC made preparations to take over the organisation of road racing.

There are two further subsidiary companies, Cyclists’ Touring Club (Sales) Limited and CTC Cycle Racing Limited. Both of these companies are “dormant”, which means they are not trading


http://www.ctc.org.uk/about-ctc/policie ... -structure

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gaz
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby gaz » 28 Dec 2014, 1:26pm

JohnW wrote:One member said that one option could be to secede from CTC and find a way of continuing as we are but under the BC banner. Personally I find this upsetting...

I realise that this is clearly not something you wish to see happen.

Other posters have mentioned the different policies of CTC and BC for club rides.

When you next see this one member please remind him of the above point and add that any assets that the section may have (cash in the bank, jerseys in stock, trophies in the cabinet, etc) are property of the Company, i.e. National Office. The section is merely custodian of the CTC's property. If the section leaves CTC (dissolves) all assets remain the property of the Company.

It's set out in the Handbook.

For your section any move to BC cannot be continuing "as we are".
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby Vorpal » 28 Dec 2014, 1:58pm

thirdcrank wrote:But the CTC already dabbles in racing.

I think it's only been the increased availability of motor transport that has caused gaps between the different types of cycling. There must be plenty of people on here, perhaps towards the older end, who were members of the CTC, RTTC, BCF, RSF and YHA. The BCF has not always been in the strong position it is in today. Not so very long ago, when it looked as though the BCF was about to go belly up, the CTC made preparations to take over the organisation of road racing.

There are two further subsidiary companies, Cyclists’ Touring Club (Sales) Limited and CTC Cycle Racing Limited. Both of these companies are “dormant”, which means they are not trading


http://www.ctc.org.uk/about-ctc/policie ... -structure

I largely agree. And I have been a member of BC in the past, and participated in cycling as a sport. As I said, I didn't gree 100% with CJ on this, but still think it's an important point, and I would not like to see the CTC move further from transport and touring.
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TonyR
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby TonyR » 28 Dec 2014, 2:56pm

JohnW wrote:Remember that a lot of us are worrying that the CTC is moving away from it's founding raison d'etre.


Its founding raison d'etre has changed a lot over the years so its unclear which rosy era of the CTC people are actually hankering after. Was there even a technical officer before CJ joined in what? 1984-ish? Do we want the CTC to still be grading hotels which is where they actually started?

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Si
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby Si » 28 Dec 2014, 3:16pm

The general (although not quite unanimous) view of the committee members present was that this endorses what has been rumoured for some time, that the CTC has no interest in members or the reason for the founding of the club, and some said that they would remain members only as long as our own current local structure was maintained. In days of yore (and mine in the 50s/60s, and as far as I know long before that) the CTC was known among us as "this great family of ours".

In our section we retain our family atmosphere and approach but it was felt that the CTC at HQ level were not interested in that


Yet the money that was being paid to these specialist posts is now going to be spent on promoting/supporting Member Groups and doing things for those members not part of a group. So you are basically criticising the CTC for supporting those people who you want to see supported!

I would refer back to my previous post: the CTC are trying to support those areas that people have asked to be supported so so it would seem strange for them to be lambasted for this. Rather one might question where they are making the savings to generate the funds for this, rather than their ultimate aims.

thirdcrank
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby thirdcrank » 28 Dec 2014, 4:07pm

Si wrote:As I said - that's a trading name - the actual name at the top is 'CTC' as it was before the charity change.

And the other question is, of course, what aspects of 'touring' do you believe they have dropped, and have you communicated this to your Councillor?


How much communication is there between CTC members and councillors? Setting aside those members who regularly chat with councillors on bike rides, how often do CTC members think "I'll take that up with my CTC councillor" and, having tracked down the details of their elected representative, still put pen to paper or bash out an email. Obviously, I've no idea, but I fancy the number is tiny.

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gaz
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby gaz » 28 Dec 2014, 4:30pm

How much communication is there between Councillors and CTC members? Setting aside those Councillors who regularly chat with members on bike rides, how often do Councillors think "I'll take that up with the members" and, having tracked down the details of their electorate, still put pen to paper, or bash out an email. Obviously, I've no idea, but I fancy the number is tiny.
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JohnW
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby JohnW » 28 Dec 2014, 9:34pm

Si wrote:........Yet the money that was being paid to these specialist posts is now going to be spent on promoting/supporting Member Groups and doing things for those members not part of a group. So you are basically criticising the CTC for supporting those people who you want to see supported........


Well to be honest, that didn't enter the discussion. I do appreciate your point. However, CTC will have to be more specific and openly publish objectives before we can all fully appreciate what's going on.

The "founding raison d'etre" was just that, the reason for the formation of the club. By definition the "founding raison d'etre" cannot change, but the "raison d'etre" can. The establishing functions of a technical officer and a touring officer were, as far as I can see, to facilitate the "founding raison d'etre". I don't know how the deleting of these functions is going to do that.

This 'rebranding' initiative has the potential to not help either.

A National Cyclecampaigning Organisation to which CTC et al is affiliated may have something to commend it, but there is a problem in that, having become a charity, all hell can break loose if that organisation tells the truth, and tells the government that they're not wonderful and marvellous, that their splather and rhetoric are meaningless if not supported by effective woks and policies, and the government takes offence. Our status, and by association our very existence, can be cleaned from the slate at a whim.............and then CTC loose all their assets.

As I say, it's all fraught.............

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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby JohnW » 28 Dec 2014, 9:37pm

I have voluntarily deleted this myself.
Last edited by JohnW on 30 Dec 2014, 9:21am, edited 3 times in total.

vioforla
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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby vioforla » 29 Dec 2014, 9:58pm

How much communication is there between Councillors and CTC members? ...


I'm one of the new councillors in JohnW's area, and just had a handover with the outgoing councillor. He mentioned that we should expect 'a few' enquiries from members, for example those who have a local campaign issue they'd like support or advice on. And it's usual for councillors to attend the AGMs of member groups in their patch. Apart from this, I think thirdcrank is probably right to suggest that the majority of CTC members are generally not in direct contact with their elected representatives.

As councillors we have the option to email members in our area (via national office's mailing list), but I don't know how many Cllrs take this up. I hope we will do this once we've been to a council meeting and have something to report and ask. We have good links with several of the local groups, RtR reps, and affiliated groups, so have ways to canvass opinion - though not a uniform geographical spread at the moment - an area to work on. Plus of course this forum!

best wishes
Lizzie

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Re: No more CTC technical officer ??HOAX??

Postby JohnW » 30 Dec 2014, 12:03am

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