What is a CTC Member?

langsett
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What is a CTC Member?

Postby langsett » 12 Apr 2015, 9:31pm

Whilst respecting the interest of those present, after all you take time to be interested & comment.

As a topic for discussion, and not a personal comment.

CTC members join/remain for the insurance aspect and not for community, campaign or comradeship?

Discuss

wirral_cyclist
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby wirral_cyclist » 12 Apr 2015, 10:06pm

An old duffer on a metal bike? All the bright young things being over at BC (riding composites) saving money on membership/3rd party.
Me I'm affiliated, but in any case have 3rd party on my household policy so don't actually need CTC for anything - well not now CJ has been dumped.

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gaz
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby gaz » 12 Apr 2015, 10:10pm

I started riding with a CTC section in October '86 following an ad in the local freebie newspaper. On the first ride I was introduced to the existence of other sections, a DA , national membership and third party insurance. By December I'd put my cheque in the post to sign up. I joined to ride with the Club.

Within a few short years I'd become involved in section and DA politics and the CRN. I discovered that it was only a small proportion of local CTC members who ever rode with my section and this picture was repeated across the DA. IMO the popular concensus amongst active members was that every one else was only in it "for the insurance". IMO the popular concensus was also that the DAs were the Club (or at the very least they were there for the Club) and that the other members didn't really matter.

When the CRN morphed into RtR I dropped out, already somewhat disillusioned with the seeming ineffectiveness of local campaigning. I drifted away from club riding around 2001, briefly returning for occasional family rides, I still attend about one ride a year.

I continue to maintain my CTC membership, for the insurance, the campaigning and the on-line community (and my annual ride :wink: ). Of course I have public liability cover with my home insurance and I don't need to be a member to post here; but I don't feel that I've stayed just for the campaigning.

Most recently I have begun to see CTC doing more work to promote cycling in the wider community, to people who do not necessarily think of themselves as cyclists. I am happy to continue supporting CTC through my membership subscriptions.
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Psamathe
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Psamathe » 12 Apr 2015, 10:13pm

Joined because I was interested in cycle touring and believe when you participate in an activity you should support the activity through joining club.

Then changes in the CTC made me appreciate the direction the new CEO is taking mean it is neither a Club, nor particularly focused on touring. And with the recent staff redundancies this became even more apparent.

So I left.

Never needed the insurance as my house policy provides the cover anyway.

Probably be joining BC soon (when I get round to investigating which membership, etc.). But CTC has me pretty disillusioned.

Ian

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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Vorpal » 12 Apr 2015, 10:18pm

I joined because I was already campaigning, and my cycling friends recommended becoming part of the RTR network. I was already a member is a couple of other organisations at the time.

My clubmates who were CTC members joined to give their membership towards campaigning, because they, too, were already members of a at least one, and sometimes more cycling organisations.

edited to add: I should note that I am no longer a member, mostly just because I no longer live in the UK. Otherwise I imagine that I would continued to be a memebr for the same reason that I joined.
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langsett
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby langsett » 13 Apr 2015, 10:59am

Some great points and views coming out. Ian, genuinely interested to try & understand why members might leave CTC & join BC? It is worth highlighting although slightly drifting topics that AFAIK BC insurance does not cover rider on rider claims where both are BC members , for example on a club run or event

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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Vorpal » 13 Apr 2015, 11:39am

langsett wrote:Some great points and views coming out. Ian, genuinely interested to try & understand why members might leave CTC & join BC? It is worth highlighting although slightly drifting topics that AFAIK BC insurance does not cover rider on rider claims where both are BC members , for example on a club run or event

What does this mean? If it is a formal event, registered with BC, they are covered under event insurance. If it is an informal event, it may be covered under event insurance, depending on the arrangements with BC. If it just a club run, or something like that, Gold and Silver members should be covered according to their policies, independent of the membership of other people involved. It's worth noting that only Gold includes personal accident insurance. Silver only includes liability insurance. So, in an incident where liability cannot be determined, only Gold members are likely to be able to claim.

I've known a number of people who belonged to both CTC and BC. I had a longish list of reasons for belonging to both, almost none of which had anything to do with the social side, which I satisfied with a local (multi-affiliated) club and rides with friends.
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby MartinC » 13 Apr 2015, 11:53am

langsett wrote:.............. CTC members join/remain for the insurance aspect and not for community, campaign or comradeship?.......


If you joined for these reasons you've lost out. CTC is no longer a members club so the community and comradeship has gone (though your local group may still provide this, despite CTC not because of it). The campaigning aspect is severely limited by the charity now being a client of those they need to lobby. I struggle to think of why anyone would join CTC now, it's only nostalgia that stopped me cancelling my DD.

langsett
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby langsett » 13 Apr 2015, 12:47pm

Vorpal wrote:
What does this mean? If it is a formal event, registered with BC, they are covered under event insurance. If it is an informal event, it may be covered under event insurance, depending on the arrangements with BC. If it just a club run, or something like that, Gold and Silver members should be covered according to their policies, independent of the membership of other people involved. It's worth noting that only Gold includes personal accident insurance. Silver only includes liability insurance. So, in an incident where liability cannot be determined, only Gold members are likely to be able to claim.


I was told by BC staff that rider on rider incidents were not covered , on an event the only claim would be where the organiser was at fault, so on a sportive for example, and 2 riders crash, it is not the organisers fault?

CTC individual ( as opposed to affiliate) insurance did cover rider on rider
Last edited by Graham on 15 Apr 2015, 9:50pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: quotation correction

Tangled Metal
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Apr 2015, 1:35pm

I have to admit to not being a member but trying to justify joining. I was hoping to join to meet other people looking to get into touring. My naive idea is there would be some group of riders with young families represented with trips away. I have joined other activity clubs, groups and organizations which worked out as being a good social organization that helps people get into an activity. I was hoping CTC had sections or groups or clubs that carried out different cycling and touring activites, in the process acting as a good training ground for newbies. My personal wish is if there is a family section.

judging from what I have read it seems to be retirees who do tour but on their own. Or they ride with a local association which happens to be about 90% retirees. All in all I see one reason to join, to search the tour routes section (it is restricted to members of CTC only). Everything else can be got elsewhere for cheaper or better level.

BTW I nearly joined about 21 years ago, Blackburn area CTC - one of the earliest CTC groups that was allowed to issue racing licences thus negating the need to join RTTC and other organizations to race in different types of racing. I was a poor recent graduate and the membership was affordable at £25 but the regulation mudguards and Carradice saddlebag was not. I am not joking. I got pulled to one side when I turned up to the AGM intending to join about minimum requirements. IIRC it was a few of the commitee members that told me the same requirements.

I am now looking at joining for the first time. Seriously, you thought I would join CTC after that first contact 20 odd years ago? I do however have a better idea of the local group. Courtesy of the internet I have seen enough photographs of their activities to know I will be about 10 - 20 years younger than most of them. No longer a problem for me. Plus they do some of the things I want to do which is more important than age IMHO.

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gaz
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby gaz » 13 Apr 2015, 8:15pm

At the risk of dragging things irretrievably off thread.

Silver and Gold categories of British Cycling Membership both provide personal liability cover (third party insurance) and legal support.

Neither cover provides protection for BC rider on BC rider incidents.

Gold category British Cycling Membership provides Personal Accident Insurance which will pay out benefits if a cycling accident results in overnight hospitalisation or a specific injury as detailed in the schedule of cover.

Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Read the information on the British Cycling website carefully to decide which policy suits your requirements. If you are still unsure, direct your enquiries to British Cycling or their insurance providers. Other providers and policies may be available. May contain track nuts.

langsett wrote:CTC individual ( as opposed to affiliate) insurance did cover rider on rider


The activities of CTC Member Groups and CTC affiliated clubs are both covered by CTC Organisers' Liability Cover. However each has a separate policy with different terms: http://www.ctc.org.uk/insurance/event-organiser

For Individual Affiliated CTC members and full CTC Members the website links to the same Third Party Insurance pages.

Please note that gaz is not FCA regulated and cannot assess individual needs for insurance. You will not receive advice or recommendations from gaz about them. Read the fact sheet and FAQs on the CTC website carefully to decide which policy suits your requirements. If you are still unsure, ring CTC's brokers directly on 0151 494 4400. Posted on a forum that contains track nuts and cannot be guaranteed track nut free.

Can we get back to discussing CTC membership? :wink:
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gaz
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby gaz » 13 Apr 2015, 8:57pm

MartinC wrote:... CTC is no longer a members club so the community and comradeship has gone (though your local group may still provide this, despite CTC not because of it). ...

IIRC at our DA's 1989 AGM the matter of organising a heat for the 1990 BCTC was raised for discussion. Many members commented on the decreasing popularity of the competition, the difficulties finding marshalls, the lack of volunteers, should we really bother? Then one of the DA's stalwarts took to his feet and spoke to the effect of "I cannot believe we are having this discussion. National Office are organising the BCTC event in 1990, it is our duty to organise a heat." All discussion ceased and the motion to organise a heat was passed.

As I mentioned upthread, this was a time when (IMO) DAs saw themselves as the CTC. I also mentioned that I've drifted away from DA matters since around 2001 and I'm somewhat out of touch, even so I cannot imagine a similar sense of loyalty being expressed today.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Philip Benstead » 14 Apr 2015, 9:55am

gaz wrote:
When the CRN morphed into RtR I dropped out, already somewhat disillusioned with the seeming ineffectiveness of local campaigning. I drifted away from club riding around 2001


Please explain why
Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Vorpal » 14 Apr 2015, 10:02am

Philip Benstead wrote:
gaz wrote:
When the CRN morphed into RtR I dropped out, already somewhat disillusioned with the seeming ineffectiveness of local campaigning. I drifted away from club riding around 2001


Please explain why

Maybe because local campaigning can be like banging your head on the wall?
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Si
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Re: What is a CTC Member?

Postby Si » 14 Apr 2015, 5:18pm

Vorpal wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:
gaz wrote:
When the CRN morphed into RtR I dropped out, already somewhat disillusioned with the seeming ineffectiveness of local campaigning. I drifted away from club riding around 2001


Please explain why

Maybe because local campaigning can be like banging your head on the wall?


A wall with a hole in it, a hole with bees coming out of it, bees with laser beams for eyes....

No, the rtr group did seem to get a bit distances from National Office while I was a part of it (part of rtr that is not NO). And I know that some felt that they were left to plough a lone furrow without too much support. Towards the end of my active time with it NO did seem to be paying more attention to it but I've no idea what it's like now.