Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
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Rusty Rider
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby Rusty Rider » 24 Jan 2018, 5:24pm

Mick F wrote:Does this really matter at all?
Why not legalise all performance-enhancing drugs?
If they all use them, it's a level playing field without the need to hide, and we wouldn't need all the endless testing.
Just let them do it.
It's not as if they are normal people anyway. Just let them get on with it.








..................... sorry, just putting forward an alternative argument! :D


1 I am in agreement with you, I gave up watching the TdF and some of the others that were on tv from time to time. I've never watched any bike racing since LA was found out, but I might if they said ok we can't catch all the cheats so we are going to allow you all to use them. After all the attitude of a lot of Joe Public's who take recreational drugs is why aren't they legal. Fine by me, just don't try saving them when they overdose.
Peter

reohn2
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jan 2018, 5:37pm

Rusty Rider wrote:. After all the attitude of a lot of Joe Public's who take recreational drugs is why aren't they legal. Fine by me, just don't try saving them when they overdose.

But if recreational drugs were legal they'd be regulated and taxed,so the chances of overdose would be reduced,and they'd be cleaner.
If you think that drug addicts are some subset of humanity to be left to die then I'll have to disagree with you.
What then of drivers who crash their vehicles due to their own fault.
Walkers and climbers left to die on high ridges?
Homeless people sleeping rough left to freeze to death?
Etc,etc.
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Rusty Rider
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby Rusty Rider » 24 Jan 2018, 5:48pm

reohn2 wrote:
Rusty Rider wrote:. After all the attitude of a lot of Joe Public's who take recreational drugs is why aren't they legal. Fine by me, just don't try saving them when they overdose.

But if recreational drugs were legal they'd be regulated and taxed,so the chances of overdose would be reduced,and they'd be cleaner.
If you think that drug addicts are some subset of humanity to be left to die.
Then what of drivers who crash their vehicles due to their own fault.
Walkers and climbers left to die on high ridges?
Homeless people sleeping rough?
Etc,etc.


I know what you mean, its just that anything illegal now for me it should stay that way, but why not just let them get on with it. There's lots of people out there who raise issues about how we live ie to much drink, smoking, etc yet I have seen a hospital take in someone who was drunk and vomiting , totally out of control, its a personal decision for that person, but why should someone who is seriously ill be further down the queue than the drunk?
Peter

reohn2
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby reohn2 » 24 Jan 2018, 6:07pm

Rusty Rider wrote:
I know what you mean, its just that anything illegal now for me it should stay that way, but why not just let them get on with it. There's lots of people out there who raise issues about how we live ie to much drink, smoking, etc yet I have seen a hospital take in someone who was drunk and vomiting , totally out of control, its a personal decision for that person, but why should someone who is seriously ill be further down the queue than the drunk?

You've hit on the two worst recreational drugs known to man,both are legal and both are heavily taxed and rightly so IMO.
People are treated equally by the medical profession that's why it's called the National Health Service,it's funded by and for the nation,if it begins to differentiate between worthy and unworthy,we are in a very sorry state and go down a very dark path as a nation IMO.

In the case of whatever is illegal should remain so,is it healthy to leave A,B and C class recreational drugs distribution in the hands of gangsters?
Example,heroin dealers mix their product with anything that looks like it such as talc or even oven scorers such as Vim,etc to increase profit margins!

And similarly so the sex industry needs legalising and reguĺating to take it out of the hands of similar gangsters.
You can't stop it so IMHO make it safer for those who wish to participate,along with education about such issues,and from an early age.
Unfortunately too much of it is swept under the carpet pretending it doesnt exist!
Last edited by reohn2 on 24 Jan 2018, 6:33pm, edited 3 times in total.
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ianrobo
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby ianrobo » 24 Jan 2018, 6:29pm

mjr wrote:
ianrobo wrote:Everything but saying why Sky sat on it for 3 months because lets be clear it is up to Sky and Froome to prove this finding wrong, it is not innocent before guilt, in effect he is guilty and this is the appeal.

I'd say it's more like we know the evidence against him, but he gets reasonable time to prepare his defence. In effect, he's not been found guilty yet because the hearing hasn't taken place AFAIK.


yes he has, he has the finding, the positive. and again like the Sky fans you are ignoring why they sat on it fro three months, IMHO Sky and Froome expected this never to come out.

Now he could accept the result be suspended and thats it and do that now ....

But what did Sky do between September and December - NOTHING

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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby mjr » 24 Jan 2018, 6:34pm

ianrobo wrote:
mjr wrote:I'd say it's more like we know the evidence against him, but he gets reasonable time to prepare his defence. In effect, he's not been found guilty yet because the hearing hasn't taken place AFAIK.


yes he has, he has the finding, the positive. and again like the Sky fans you are ignoring why they sat on it fro three months, IMHO Sky and Froome expected this never to come out.

Now he could accept the result be suspended and thats it and do that now ....

But what did Sky do between September and December - NOTHING

I'm no Sky fan, we don't know that they did nothing and we don't know how long this sort of hearing usually takes. In two previous known cases (one leak, one from an earlier regime), one rider was banned seven months after the adverse finding and the other eleven months after. Why are you expecting it to be any faster now? Just because it's Sky? Wouldn't that be special treatment for the richest team?
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby ianrobo » 24 Jan 2018, 7:10pm

yes we do know they did nothing mate because when it came out they said they would do the tests in the new year, they could have done this after the world champs but no they waited and waited and in fact just makes it worse for Froome when the inevitable ban happens

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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 Jan 2018, 8:46pm

ianrobo wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:It's not unfair. It's also not UCI sitting on it until leaked, it's the standard protocol as followed by all sports governing bodies who work to WADA rules to not make public this type of test result.


SO Sky and Froome knew in September he was guilty of a AAF, so can you explain why they did NOTHING until it was leaked

So you had the inside Sky story on this? You know for sure they did nothing? Do you really have the inside story here? I bet they started looking into the AAF straight away. There's quite likely to be a lot going on at Sky. Legal, medical, managerial, coaching staff, etc. all looking into different aspects. Then they're likely carrying out literature reviews on the science, looking at designing potential experiments to provide evidence. Perhaps carrying out the experiments to rule things out. They might not know why the result of the test happened (if you assume he hadn't taken too much).

Basically there's a lot to do all while still training and doing public appearances and all the other aspects of top sports men's life. That's why UCI and all those governing bodies operating under WADA rules give athletes with an AAF up to a year to look into it and provide their defence or cop to it.

Basically there's something called due process going on here. All the leak has done is put Sky and Froome under greater pressure. It has not been in the public interest. It has only fed those wanting to see Sky and especially Froome crash and burn. It's pathetic that success of a non French, Italian, German rider is so disliked.

IMHO if Alberto Contain (someone who has cheated with performance enhancing drugs but is very popular) had an AAF there would have been no leak. If there had been a leak nobody would be having this same negative approach towards the story.

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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby Paulatic » 12 Feb 2018, 1:20pm

Very interesting interview http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/for ... rey-areas/ Reinforces any doubt you might have about Sky's medical record keeping.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby Paulatic » 1 Mar 2018, 3:59pm

Latest news won’t help his case.
The data, obtained by the Press Association news agency via a Freedom of Information request, reveals that despite the high number of athletes diagnosed with asthma, salbutamol accounted for only three of the 109 Adverse Analytical Findings (AAF) that UKAD processed between January 2015 and December 2017.
The UKAD figures also show that 77 of the 109 cases - seven in 10 – led to anti-doping rule violation cases. All three of the salbutamol AAF led to anti-doping rule violation cases. UKAD case data reveals that athletes from football, boxing and judo have been banned for the presence of salbutamol in their samples.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby mjr » 1 Mar 2018, 4:27pm

Paulatic wrote:Latest news won’t help his case.

Doesn't seem to be that unhelpful. At best, it shows that there's about 15 AAF cases a year in the UK where it never became an anti-doping case and presumably no-one ever knew which athletes were involved because it didn't get leaked, unlike Froome's case. The main bad news for him is that the 3 UK cases of salbutamol AAFs in the last 2 years have all ended in bans, but it is only 3.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby ianrobo » 1 Mar 2018, 6:05pm

mjr wrote:
Paulatic wrote:Latest news won’t help his case.

Doesn't seem to be that unhelpful. At best, it shows that there's about 15 AAF cases a year in the UK where it never became an anti-doping case and presumably no-one ever knew which athletes were involved because it didn't get leaked, unlike Froome's case. The main bad news for him is that the 3 UK cases of salbutamol AAFs in the last 2 years have all ended in bans, but it is only 3.


but this is nothing to do with UKAD but he was positive in Spain !

and the last cyclist who was that we know about (I am sure others like his were covered up) was banned - Ulissi

Oh on Sunday the DCMS SC releases their report into doping on sport .... all about sky, Wiggins, jiffybaggate and losing (sorry deleting) records

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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby mjr » 1 Mar 2018, 6:13pm

ianrobo wrote:but this is nothing to do with UKAD but he was positive in Spain !

He rides on a UK licence, so surely it's a UKAD case? After all, they investigated the Wiggins jiffy bag and that happened in France.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby ianrobo » 1 Mar 2018, 6:35pm

mjr wrote:
ianrobo wrote:but this is nothing to do with UKAD but he was positive in Spain !

He rides on a UK licence, so surely it's a UKAD case? After all, they investigated the Wiggins jiffy bag and that happened in France.


sure UKAD will pursue it but test done in Spain, the data is Spanish and for those even thinking he will be let off, even UKAD are NOT THAT corrupt, if they did the UCI would take it to CAS within hours if not minutes. Froome fans had better come to terms with this or keep on believing the Sky BS ?

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Re: Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

Postby ianrobo » 2 Mar 2018, 8:25am

Matt Lawton in the DM now has this story .....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... ky-HQ.html

Remeber he was the one who broke Jiffy Bag gate and why would any sports team need to order these ? Answer - they do not and this is bang on the time of Froome's miracle turnaround from an also ran into TDF win multiple times.

Still believe in miracles ?