Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.

Valverde Worthy Or Not (Banned 2008-10 appx)

Poll ended at 16 Oct 2018, 11:05am

Worthy Yes
12
63%
Worthy No
3
16%
Don't Care
2
11%
Happy If Not On Any Podium
2
11%
Time Limit From Ban Will Change My Mind
0
No votes
50 / 50 Not Decided
0
No votes
Life Ban
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 19

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RickH
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby RickH » 5 Oct 2018, 11:47am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/late ... eam-396414

"After Landis blew the whistle on Armstrong in 2010, Armstrong paid $5million to the government in a settlement earlier this year.

As the person who first filed the lawsuit back in 2010, Landis was eligible for up to 25 per cent of the payout."

Bringing drugs back into cycling? :?

BBC wrote:The whistleblower at the centre of the Lance Armstrong doping scandal is to make his return to cycling with the launch of his own team.

In 2010 American Floyd Landis, who was himself banned for doping, lifted the lid on former US Postal Service team-mate Armstrong's long-term use of performance-enhancing drugs.

The Canada-based team will be sponsored by the 42-year-old's cannabis business. (my bold - link)

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mjr
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby mjr » 5 Oct 2018, 12:18pm

reohn2 wrote:
mjr wrote:He's unrepentant and ends interviews that ask about his doping IIRC... which is what calls his worthiness into question.

It's his prerogative,I'm happy that he was caught,banned and has learned his lesson and returned to racing.
If anyone doubts his character then all I ask is for them to watch the crash in last year's TdeF prolog,and his injuries sustained at his age in his career,and his results this year.
The man is a legend.
YVMV mine won't

I'm not sure it will, because as well as the doping, I think he's a boring rider who mostly wins by sucking wheels uphill and then using his slightly-above-average sprint to mug the group that carried him to the line and who dishonourably exploits any bad luck that befalls his rivals, like attacking at an intermediate sprint on the final stage to take the Vuelta points jersey off a punctured Purito a few years back. His legend status seems to be mainly from riding so long and being one of the few Spanish riders to bridge the gap between the Contador/Freire era and whoever comes next (Mas?).

reohn2 wrote:One thing's for sure though,if Valverde is still doping he's walking a very fine line and has LA's legacy hanging over him,and likewise anyone else.

I think all dopers are "walking a very fine line". That's rather the nature of it now.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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reohn2
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby reohn2 » 5 Oct 2018, 1:25pm

MJR
I think our outlook varies on so many things,so I'll leave it at that :)
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neilob
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby neilob » 5 Oct 2018, 4:58pm

[/quote]
I'm not sure it will, because as well as the doping, I think he's a boring rider who mostly wins by sucking wheels uphill and then using his slightly-above-average sprint to mug the group that carried him to the line and who dishonourably exploits any bad luck that befalls his rivals, like attacking at an intermediate sprint on the final stage to take the Vuelta points jersey off a punctured Purito a few years back. His legend status seems to be mainly from riding so long and being one of the few Spanish riders to bridge the gap between the Contador/Freire era and whoever comes next. [/quote]

I am staggered that you take this view! Boring? Wheel sucker? Slightly above average sprint? Dishonourable? Whatever your take on the doping history, Valverde is one of the very few exciting and cavalier riders in the pro peloton. He races from February to October and his palmares is a great indicator of his class and tactical nous. He has won classics, three week tours, stage races and even track events. I wish there were more like him but don’t interpret that as an endorsement of his doping years.
Using a car to take an adult on a three mile journey is the same as using an atomic bomb to kill a canary.

brynpoeth
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby brynpoeth » 5 Oct 2018, 5:00pm

My drug? The adulation and cheering of the crowds!
-Taeve Schur (DDR), peace race winner, world champion
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

reohn2
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby reohn2 » 5 Oct 2018, 5:53pm

neilob wrote:........ Boring? Wheel sucker? Slightly above average sprint? Dishonourable? Whatever your take on the doping history, Valverde is one of the very few exciting and cavalier riders in the pro peloton. He races from February to October and his palmares is a great indicator of his class and tactical nous. He has won classics, three week tours, stage races and even track events. I wish there were more like him but don’t interpret that as an endorsement of his doping years.

+1
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mjr
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby mjr » 5 Oct 2018, 7:42pm

neilob wrote:He races from February to October and his palmares is a great indicator of his class and tactical nous. He has won classics, three week tours, stage races and even track events. I wish there were more like him but don’t interpret that as an endorsement of his doping years.

Still being able to race 8 months when others have two short peaks in a season is itself a bit odd. Most of what he wins at World Tour level since his ban is like his world championship win: cling on, then beat the others in a sprint. Dull. Give me Sagan, Alaphillipe, GVA, Gilbert, or even Yates, Thomas or Froome have better attacking flair moments.

Edit: I really like Thomas de Gendt's mad attacking but he doesn't win much because everyone knows he'll keep attacking until he pops. He'll be bikepacking home from Lombardy with teammate Tim Wellens soon. One step nearer touring! +1!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

reohn2
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby reohn2 » 5 Oct 2018, 11:36pm

mjr wrote:
neilob wrote:He races from February to October and his palmares is a great indicator of his class and tactical nous. He has won classics, three week tours, stage races and even track events. I wish there were more like him but don’t interpret that as an endorsement of his doping years.

Still being able to race 8 months when others have two short peaks in a season is itself a bit odd. Most of what he wins at World Tour level since his ban is like his world championship win: cling on, then beat the others in a sprint. Dull. Give me Sagan, Alaphillipe, GVA, Gilbert, or even Yates, Thomas or Froome have better attacking flair moments.

Edit: I really like Thomas de Gendt's mad attacking but he doesn't win much because everyone knows he'll keep attacking until he pops. He'll be bikepacking home from Lombardy with teammate Tim Wellens soon. One step nearer touring! +1!

Simple question.In a bike race which is more impotant winning or not?
Valverde as a top team leader is paid to win(legally of course),do suicide attacks and breakaways acheive that?
If not what's the point,other than to get the sponsor's name on TV?
It's why the're called TV breakaways :wink:

I have a geat deal of admiration for Thomas deGent,but his wins,though spectacular when they happen,are far and few between and I think in a better team if he were more controlled and supported he'd win more often,for whatever reason,he isn't and so is a breakaway rider.
Valverde knows his own strengths and weaknesses and uses them to his advantage.
Winning is,from a pro cyclist's POV,what it's all about and if not possible individually then as part of the team,if the team wins all team members share in the win.
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Brucey
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby Brucey » 6 Oct 2018, 12:19am

interestingly the course was set up specifically to avoid a bunch finish, maybe make for a solo breakaway, but it didn't quite work; there were quite a lot of riders who could manage a stiff climb after 150 miles (or whatever it was). I had been watching the F1 race with a chum and we tuned in to the last 30km of the road race and saw the final selection and then the sprint. I knew Valverde was liable to outsprint the others, even from the front. Chapeau to Valverde, a win is a win and all that, but (like many riders) his is a past blighted with various 'incidents'. He is a real racer, right enough, but real racers will often do anything to win; that has been more evident in the past than in his world championship win.

cheers
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cycleruk
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Re: Valverde.......A Worthy Winner............Poll

Postby cycleruk » 13 Oct 2018, 2:03pm

Valverde is racing today in the "Tour of Lombardy" - on Eurosport.
Leave getting old to others.