why not carry a spare tub?

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aljohn
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Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

why not carry a spare tub?

Postby aljohn » 30 Jul 2016, 11:36pm

After seeing Cadel Evans wait for 10 minutes for a wheel/bike 'cos of a puncture, then Richie Porte wait for a couple of minutes for the same reason, I'm wondering why they don't carry a spare tub. The delay cost Cadel any chance of a Tour win, and it didn't help Richie either. I think some racers still use tubular tyres still (?), but don't carry a spare. Back in the day IIRC a rider could puncture, swap tyres and inflate (with CO2 ?) in 20 seconds and be riding to catch a team member who had slowed to help him back to the bunch. A tub weighs what? a pound? I know the situations I described are rare, but they do still happen. I never swapped tyres, inflated and replaced wheel anything like that quickly, but then I wasn't racing.
Just a thought, perhaps someone can enlighten me where I've made mistakes. I'm also speaking as someone who carries a puncture outfit, spare inner tube, reading glasses, coat, multi function tool in a tiny saddlebag - so perhaps I'm biased....

drossall
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Location: North Hertfordshire

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby drossall » 30 Jul 2016, 11:56pm

I doubt it could be done in 20 seconds. As a result, anyone who used the spare tub would be sufficiently far behind to face problems anyway. So, it's quicker, if a team leader, to rely on taking a team-mate's bike.

With all the effort to save weight, it's just not worth it.

aljohn
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Joined: 7 Sep 2012, 9:39pm

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby aljohn » 31 Jul 2016, 8:02pm

I take your point but I think it would still be a helluva lot less time than several minutes. I'm still living in the past, I know....

andrew_s
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Location: Gloucestershire

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby andrew_s » 31 Jul 2016, 11:43pm

aljohn wrote:Back in the day IIRC a rider could puncture, swap tyres and inflate (with CO2 ?) in 20 seconds
Back in the day, they used regular air pumps, CO2 "pumps" not having been invented. Swapping tubs is quicker than swapping inner tubes but you are still talking 3 or 4 minutes at the very least.
Anyway, if you glue the tubs on lightly enough that getting them off within 20s of stopping is possible, I'm sure you'd find that you lost more time to crashes caused by rolled tubs than you saved in slow wheel changes.

As for LRP, if you are so unfortunate as to puncture in the last 5-8km of a sprint stage, after the leadout trains have got wound up, you'd lose a minute or a minute and a half even if the wheel change only took 1 second (Ritchie lost 1m45s). Chris Froome had the same in one of the first stages of the year Wiggo won.

Postboxer
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Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby Postboxer » 2 Aug 2016, 7:02am

Do they compile puncture statistics for the TDF? Would be interesting to know how many punctures occur in x km, though probably meaningless for us as the roads are likely to be in good condition and swept etc.

I suppose it's all a gamble/trade-off, every bit of weight slows you up hills, someone else won't be carrying spares and therefore have an advantage, unless they puncture.

pete75
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Joined: 24 Jul 2007, 2:37pm

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby pete75 » 11 Sep 2016, 8:25pm

andrew_s wrote:
aljohn wrote:Back in the day IIRC a rider could puncture, swap tyres and inflate (with CO2 ?) in 20 seconds
Back in the day, they used regular air pumps, CO2 "pumps" not having been invented. Swapping tubs is quicker than swapping inner tubes but you are still talking 3 or 4 minutes at the very least.
Anyway, if you glue the tubs on lightly enough that getting them off within 20s of stopping is possible, I'm sure you'd find that you lost more time to crashes caused by rolled tubs than you saved in slow wheel changes.



When I raced and used tubs everyone carried spares. It was easy enough to pull off the old tube and put a fresh one on. When I had a puncture in a 25 it increased my time by about a minute and I used a pump. Never had a rolled tub and don't know anyone else who did either.

thirdcrank
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Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby thirdcrank » 11 Sep 2016, 9:38pm

andrew_s wrote: ... Back in the day, they used regular air pumps, CO2 "pumps" not having been invented. ... .


This is just to query which day you were back in. I've never owned a CO2 pump, but I'm pretty sure they were advertised by Ron K in Everything Cycling in the late 1950's. I think there's somebody on here with a copy because I think they posted when there was another query about older equipment.

Somewhere among my souvenirs I have one of the various souvenir editions of the comic with a reprint of a pic of a rider from possibly 1925 - goggles and so on. Bike fitted with tyre savers, tub round the rider's shoulders, more tubs on the bike, ordinary pump and a CO2 pump the size of a medium fire extinguisher. When there was an earlier discussion on here, possibly about tyre savers, I tried to scan the picture but it was so grainy that it wasn't worth posting.

In short, I think CO2 pumps have made a comeback rather than being a recent invention.

pete75
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Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby pete75 » 11 Sep 2016, 9:50pm

thirdcrank wrote:
andrew_s wrote: ... Back in the day, they used regular air pumps, CO2 "pumps" not having been invented. ... .


This is just to query which day you were back in. I've never owned a CO2 pump, but I'm pretty sure they were advertised by Ron K in Everything Cycling in the late 1950's. I think there's somebody on here with a copy because I think they posted when there was another query about older equipment.

Somewhere among my souvenirs I have one of the various souvenir editions of the comic with a reprint of a pic of a rider from possibly 1925 - goggles and so on. Bike fitted with tyre savers, tub round the rider's shoulders, more tubs on the bike, ordinary pump and a CO2 pump the size of a medium fire extinguisher. When there was an earlier discussion on here, possibly about tyre savers, I tried to scan the picture but it was so grainy that it wasn't worth posting.

In short, I think CO2 pumps have made a comeback rather than being a recent invention.


Sparklets soda syphons were on the go in 1930 so the little cylinders of Co2 would have been available back then.

tatanab
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Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby tatanab » 12 Sep 2016, 9:32am

pete75 wrote:Sparklets soda syphons were on the go in 1930 so the little cylinders of Co2 would have been available back then.
Sparklets based pumps were pretty common in the 1970s. I had a home made one based on some sort of twist holder mounted to a Campag adaptor.

andrew_s
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Location: Gloucestershire

Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby andrew_s » 8 Feb 2017, 9:16pm

thirdcrank wrote:
andrew_s wrote: ... Back in the day, they used regular air pumps, CO2 "pumps" not having been invented. ... .

This is just to query which day you were back in.

I was back in the days when Tour riders used to carry a spare tub round their shoulders.

rjb
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Re: why not carry a spare tub?

Postby rjb » 8 Feb 2017, 9:31pm

I recall some device about 1970 which screwed onto the presta valve and would top the pressure up as the wheel rotated. A good idea but they soon disappeared so probably weren't very effective. Was i dreaming?
At the last count:- Focus Variado, Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, 2 Dawes Kingpins, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, On One Pompino, Longstaff trike conversion on a Falcon corsa. :D