Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by mjr »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:She said in BBC interview, along the lines, my family came first, about the third test.

That's fine, and the consequence of that choice is that her career suffers, like so many of us when we put our families before work. I don't like it, but that seems to be where we are at the moment.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Don't athletes at this level get any support :?:

Where's Coe when you need them...........

If the gov want performance and prestige in this then there needs to be support for athletes doing there job, financial and moral.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by mjr »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Don't athletes at this level get any support :?:

Yes but she chose to leave it. I think in http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/6- ... -interview, Lizzie said that one thing she liked about Boels-Dolman was that they left her to manage herself outside of races, more than British Cycling ever did. I suspect that's not seeming such a good thing now, though.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by TrevA »

The likes of Cav, Froome and Wiggins can afford to employ someone to look after their administration, or the team does it for them but due to the inequality of salaries between men and women, I suspect that Lizzie can't do that and has to do all her admin herself.
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Re: Armistead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Paulatic »

Spinners wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
Nicole Cookes little statement today doesn't help her case either.



Neither does it put the boot in either.


True
Neither does the Female Secret Pro but there is obviously some suspicion amongst the female peloton

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/the-fema ... s-peloton/
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by kylecycler »

Another article from Cycling Tips - an anonymous international Doping Control Officer who feels the DCO in the case Lizzie Armitstead appealed successfully against didn't do enough to try to contact her.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/doping-c ... outs-case/
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Re: Armistead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Spinners »

Paulatic wrote:
Spinners wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
Nicole Cookes little statement today doesn't help her case either.



Neither does it put the boot in either.


True
Neither does the Female Secret Pro but there is obviously some suspicion amongst the female peloton

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/the-fema ... s-peloton/


Is there? Is this 'obvious' suspicion amongst the female peloton contained within the link you've posted? More importantly, are you suspicious?

I'm not.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Tonyf33 »

Sorry but her excuses are feeble and she takes no responsibility for her actions and CAS should be ashamed of themselves for caving in to the pressure undoubtly put on them to ensure EA was clear to compete at RIo. Can't have the golden girl of British cycling under a dark cloud now especially with all the fall out over Russian athletes :roll:
She is the professional, she eats, drinks, trains as a professional, she has one tiny thing to do to ensure she is contactable, that doesn't just mean turn up at a hotel, get a key and say nothing to the staff and turn your phone off.
We all know what hotel protocol is like especially even more so in todays climate, she knows what hotel protocol is like. Chris Froome took responsibility for a missed test due to hotel staff not letting a tester have the room number, he took it upon himself to ensure that that never happened again. That was big news, she would have known about it as other athletes would have done so being pro-active/following certain steps as British Cyling advised her should have being a priority, you know like leaving your phone on to be contacted for that period YOU CHOSE to be available for testing, that phone that the tester tried to contact you on!!

She then changed her story regarding whether she had challenged or not challenged the first missed test, UKAD says she didn't until the last test but either way the CAS decision is lenient in extremis in a system that was made more lenient with the reduction to 3 in 12 months not the 3 in 18 months as previously enforced.

That Ms Armitstead then missed another test due to her inability to abide by the rules and then another when she couldn't be bothered to notify the drugs agency of her whereabouts stating family illness Which she could do by smart phone/SMS/email/computer directly to the website is frankly at best a disgustingly cavalier attitude toward drugs and the system.
Notifying UKAD will not have changed the illness of the family member in any way and knowing she was on a final warning still elected to ignore the system in place, why jeopardise your whole career and reputation for a few minutes? No, you don't have to be a robot, but you have a known responsibility to comply and in that she hasn't, all that within 9 months! How many other athletes have missed three tests of recent times, why should Ms Armitstead be given more leeway? Frankly she, BC and CAS are making a mockery of this, reasonableness my butt cheeks.

The Nicole Cooke statement is VERY damning and rightly so.

People here need to understand why unannounced testing is important, micro-dosing can allow you to be under the test limits which are very high as the vast majority of doping done now matches chemicals that occur in the body anyway. This means that if you micro dope on a Wednesday have a good long sleep which come Thursday 6am will have reduced that level in your body to within the limits in that short space of time. It's laughably co-oncidental that the language used by her legal/PR team in her statement says 'never failed a test' instead of clarifying never used drugs.

Not being available until the following day as in Ms Armitstead's case with her subsequent testing after her race which she passed within those limits would give enough time for micro-dosing to not be caught, that's a simple fact that has been demonstrated previously.

Lapping up her and her legal teams blether by the majority on here, makes me want to puke, wake up for goodness sakes!
I hope she doesn't make the podium and if she does gets loud boos, she should do the decent thing and withdraw from the games.
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Re: Armistead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Paulatic »

Spinners wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
Spinners wrote:
Neither does it put the boot in either.


True
Neither does the Female Secret Pro but there is obviously some suspicion amongst the female peloton

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/the-fema ... s-peloton/


Is there? Is this 'obvious' suspicion amongst the female peloton contained within the link you've posted? More importantly, are you suspicious?

I'm not.


I really don't t know what to think my nature is to believe her open hearted. I do know the reason I'm cautious about believing Lizzie is I was really succoured in with LA. I'm wary of another kick in the stomach.

The reason I used the word suspicion is because it was used in the article.
The fact that this was kept hidden until less than a week before the Olympic road race, and that she did not appeal her first strike immediately, does make things look suspicious. But I guess she hasn’t actually tested positive. And so what can you do?


Another thing puzzling me now is why didn't Lizzie feel the cold back in the Spring Classics? Why mention it in an article written back in July if it hadn't been a discussion point amongst the peloton.
The team has had a more than impressive start, but the thing that surprised me most has to be Lizzie at Het Nieuwsblad – the first Spring Classic of the season. Everyone was rugged up in neck warmers, Gabba jackets and winter gloves, and I look over to see Lizzie Armitstead cruising in the peloton wearing knicks, a jersey and no gloves

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Re: Armistead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Spinners »

Paulatic wrote:
Another thing puzzling me now is why didn't Lizzie feel the cold back in the Spring Classics?



Well, she is from Yorkshire :D
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by kylecycler »

Tonyf33 wrote:She is the professional, she eats, drinks, trains as a professional, she has one tiny thing to do to ensure she is contactable, that doesn't just mean turn up at a hotel, get a key and say nothing to the staff and turn your phone off.

We all know what hotel protocol is like especially even more so in todays climate, she knows what hotel protocol is like. Chris Froome took responsibility for a missed test due to hotel staff not letting a tester have the room number, he took it upon himself to ensure that that never happened again. That was big news, she would have known about it as other athletes would have done so being pro-active/following certain steps as British Cyling advised her should have being a priority, you know like leaving your phone on to be contacted for that period YOU CHOSE to be available for testing, that phone that the tester tried to contact you on!

Not according to the Doping Control Officer interviewed by Cycling Tips in the article I linked to in an earlier post:

“Again, the tester didn’t seem to do enough. Even if the reception wouldn’t give him the room number, I have often asked them to call the room. If there is no answer, I’ve asked them to call the room of the manager or the team doctor.”

But what about the fact that Armitstead’s phone was on silent at a time when she should have been available for testing?

“That’s not unusual,” he said. “99 percent of the time we don’t have to ring them. Ringing them is the last resort…we knock at the door.

“As I said, in ten years I have never not got past the receptionist.”


http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/doping-c ... outs-case/

I would find it hard to believe that anyone who saw or listened to Jill Douglas's interview with Lizzie Armitstead on Thursday would not be convinced that she was telling the truth - she's either a pathological liar and a consummate actress or else she's genuine, you can't have it both ways - I think anyone who saw or heard the interview would be a pretty hopeless judge of character if they still believed she's a cheat - even an Oscar winner isn't that good an actor - even Lance wasn't that good an actor...

You can hear the tail end of the interview and then Jess Varnish's and others' take on the issue if you click along the timeline @ 21:40 in this link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m75dc

I might be wrong and we've been fooled before but I believe she's innocent, which is what matters, not whether or not she played the game; the game, let's not forget, forced on clean cyclists by the cheats.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by thirdcrank »

People believe what they want to believe


The internet seems to credit this to Gayle Forman (whovever that may be :? )

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/386248 ... to-believe

The same quick google suggests there's scientific support for the theory

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ul ... nt-believe

A search of this forum reveals plenty of hits for confirmation of bias etc
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Postboxer »

Missing a drugs test when you are where you said you would be but the hotel don't let the tester in, doesn't seem a good way of trying to avoid one if you are a drugs cheat does it. Being somewhere else because of a family medical emergency also seems excusable, it wouldn't be the first thing on your mind whether or not you were on your third strike. I don't understand the circumstances of the second strike, am I right thinking she wasn't where she'd said she'd be, but they didn't try to test her, and only realised this on an audit after that time had passed?
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Re: Armistead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Paulatic »

Spinners wrote:
Paulatic wrote:
Another thing puzzling me now is why didn't Lizzie feel the cold back in the Spring Classics?



Well, she is from Yorkshire :D


I'm from Yorkshire too and constantly cold.
Maybe I should try some Cytomel they say it keeps you warm :D
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Post by Tonyf33 »

kylecycler wrote:
Tonyf33 wrote:She is the professional, she eats, drinks, trains as a professional, she has one tiny thing to do to ensure she is contactable, that doesn't just mean turn up at a hotel, get a key and say nothing to the staff and turn your phone off.

We all know what hotel protocol is like especially even more so in todays climate, she knows what hotel protocol is like. Chris Froome took responsibility for a missed test due to hotel staff not letting a tester have the room number, he took it upon himself to ensure that that never happened again. That was big news, she would have known about it as other athletes would have done so being pro-active/following certain steps as British Cyling advised her should have being a priority, you know like leaving your phone on to be contacted for that period YOU CHOSE to be available for testing, that phone that the tester tried to contact you on!

Not according to the Doping Control Officer interviewed by Cycling Tips in the article I linked to in an earlier post:

“Again, the tester didn’t seem to do enough. Even if the reception wouldn’t give him the room number, I have often asked them to call the room. If there is no answer, I’ve asked them to call the room of the manager or the team doctor.”

But what about the fact that Armitstead’s phone was on silent at a time when she should have been available for testing?

“That’s not unusual,” he said. “99 percent of the time we don’t have to ring them. Ringing them is the last resort…we knock at the door.

“As I said, in ten years I have never not got past the receptionist.”


http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/doping-c ... outs-case/

I would find it hard to believe that anyone who saw or listened to Jill Douglas's interview with Lizzie Armitstead on Thursday would not be convinced that she was telling the truth - she's either a pathological liar and a consummate actress or else she's genuine, you can't have it both ways - I think anyone who saw or heard the interview would be a pretty hopeless judge of character if they still believed she's a cheat - even an Oscar winner isn't that good an actor - even Lance wasn't that good an actor...

You can hear the tail end of the interview and then Jess Varnish's and others' take on the issue if you click along the timeline @ 21:40 in this link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07m75dc

I might be wrong and we've been fooled before but I believe she's innocent, which is what matters, not whether or not she played the game; the game, let's not forget, forced on clean cyclists by the cheats.

I'll take the side of the official statement and subsequent ban by UKAD over something a rag will write.
According to UKAD she missed three tests, whichever way you want to put it she broke the rules and stating that XXX don't do X is not an excuse. Nobody else has missed three tests it's as simple as that.
If there was no missed tests UKAD would never have imposed the ban right?

you and others believe she is innocent, I believe she missed three tests as stated by UKAD and is very very suspicious. The decision by CAS does not state that she is not NOT GUILTY, just that they have given her more leeway than other athletes which in my any many others opinion is wrong.
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