Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
andrew_s
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby andrew_s » 20 Feb 2017, 5:29pm

Norman H wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I resurrected this through feeling frustrated by the seemingly unexplained delay by CAS in publishing the reasoning for a finding which has procedural implications for all sport


Frustrating indeed, I think Chris Froome would also be interested to hear their explanation. I believe he suffered a missed test under near identical circumstances. He appealed the decision, although I don't know to which authority he appealed, but judging by subsequent comments that he made, that authority took a different view to the Lizzie Armitstead case and the the missed test stayed on his record.

CAS may have greater trouble reconciling that apparent anomaly, than explaining the reasons for overturning the LA decision.

The rumour was that the tester, having failed to get past the reception desk at the hotel, didn't stick around the full hour, and that LA was in the dining room having breakfast before the hour was up. I think in Chris Froome's case, he was in his room for the full hour.

Of the other two, from what I remember one was LA wasn't where she said she'd be, and one was a late submission of the quarter's whereabouts. Apparently on previous submissions there'd been someone at British Cycling checking that submissions had been made & nagging those who hadn't submitted early enough. The "someone" had left, and the job hadn't been picked up by anyone else. You shouldn't rely on being nagged, but you can see how a date would be missed if you had come to do so.

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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby thirdcrank » 20 Feb 2017, 7:54pm

Well, you don't get anything if you don't ask. I've just sent an email to CAS at the general enquiry address as shown on the website. It's not bounced.

Hello

It is now some six months since CAS allowed the appeal Of Elizabeth Armitstead (now Deignan.) May ask if CAS intends to publish the reasons for the judgment and if so, when this may be?

Regards

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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby trilathon » 16 Mar 2017, 8:03pm

I've signed cycling cap from Lizzie, with x kiss under her name, it dates back a good 10 years or so from her days on the boards. Charity shop I think along with the wiggins skinsuit.
Searching for, and camping in, places of antiquity and wild beauty. Former ironman, 3PCX, Rough Stuff Fellowship, fell runner, regional time trial champion and 20 odd years of cyclo camping around Europe.

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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby landsurfer » 16 Mar 2017, 8:18pm

I would be very happy to take them both from you .
Superb, clean, Illegal drug free athletes ....
Actually i'm really happy they represent this fair land as the pair of them are role models for young cyclists everywhere......
As is Joanna Rowsell Shand also is ... she was happy to state that BC had given her superb support throughout her career ...
Shame she has retired ...

I do wonder what Ms Varnish's problem is .....
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Mar 2017, 8:22pm

That's reminded me. Three weeks since I emailed and not even an acknowledgment. I suspect we will never know :(

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mjr
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 12:25am

landsurfer wrote:I would be very happy to take them both from you .
Superb, clean, Illegal drug free athletes ....
Actually i'm really happy they represent this fair land as the pair of them are role models for young cyclists everywhere......
As is Joanna Rowsell Shand also is ... she was happy to state that BC had given her superb support throughout her career ...
Shame she has retired ...

I do wonder what Ms Varnish's problem is .....

Go read Nicole Cooke's The Breakaway and you might start to get some idea :-(
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 12:33am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... ss-varnish summarized:
The independent panel found Varnish lost her funding “as an act of retaliation” for criticising coaching staff at last year’s track world championships in London and was “removed” from the programme without due warning. It added: “In the situation involving Jess Varnish the panel did not find explanations convincing from coaching staff that she could go from being a borderline Olympian [in fact, potentially an Olympic medallist] to not being good enough … within a week. Varnish was not given a warning or any period of time to improve. She was simply removed.”

I'd bet that was just the last in a long line, too
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby landsurfer » 17 Mar 2017, 7:21am

Yet Mrs. Kenny and Joanna Rowsell-Shand Say the opposite, openly applaud BC for the support, coaching and all that goes with it.
As previously said, i doubt we will ever know the true ins and outs of the situation ......
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 10:58am

landsurfer wrote:Yet Mrs. Kenny and Joanna Rowsell-Shand Say the opposite, openly applaud BC for the support, coaching and all that goes with it.
As previously said, i doubt we will ever know the true ins and outs of the situation ......

We probably will but, as with Nicole Cooke, it'll be long after the specifics are a current/live issue. It sounds to me like it's was a personality cult, where the coaches' favourites get the world and those who don't/won't/can't do as they're told get the boot. If it's can't, that's defensible. If it's don't or won't, then it really depends if the coaches are right or wrong and from the stunts described in Cooke's book, I can't believe that Sutton was always right. The testimony of former GB women's coach Cope to the select committee makes me doubt he was always right - I suspect he was willing to do whatever he was told, whether it made sense for the athletes or not.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby landsurfer » 17 Mar 2017, 12:54pm

I strongly believe strongly in what Chris Boardman had to say on Radio 5 live " We must not lose sight of the fantastic world beating success we have achieved" (to paraphrase).
Sone times we get so caught upon the rights and wrongs we forget that we are (where?) the dominant world cycling nation ...
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 1:16pm

landsurfer wrote:I strongly believe strongly in what Chris Boardman had to say on Radio 5 live " We must not lose sight of the fantastic world beating success we have achieved" (to paraphrase).
Sone times we get so caught upon the rights and wrongs we forget that we are (where?) the dominant world cycling nation ...

Never mind the ethics, feel the gold? :lol:

I do celebrate the fantastic world-beating success of Boardman, Cooke and (for now) Cavendish and Froome, among others... but I won't celebrate Shane Sutton and I've doubts about some of the others and am now waiting for the dust to settle to see if it's just dust. Why should I celebrate those? The latest revelations by Josh Edmondson seem a worrying insight into a 2013 Team Sky of needles and terrified riders.

Returning to the OP, I think Armitstead was/is probably clean and was partly screwed by feeling that she could rely on support from BC that was withdrawn without telling her. The BC attitude seems like it's still what Cooke summarised as "nothing for the women" and especially ones like Armitstead who chose life primarily in a continental team rather than the BC system and has often embarrassed the BC leaders since at least the 2009 national road championships.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby landsurfer » 17 Mar 2017, 1:37pm

mjr wrote:
landsurfer wrote:I strongly believe strongly in what Chris Boardman had to say on Radio 5 live " We must not lose sight of the fantastic world beating success we have achieved" (to paraphrase).
Sone times we get so caught upon the rights and wrongs we forget that we are (where?) the dominant world cycling nation ...

Never mind the ethics, feel the gold? :lol:

I do celebrate the fantastic world-beating success of Boardman, Cooke and (for now) Cavendish and Froome, among others... but I won't celebrate Shane Sutton and I've doubts about some of the others and am now waiting for the dust to settle to see if it's just dust. Why should I celebrate those? The latest revelations by Josh Edmondson seem a worrying insight into a 2013 Team Sky of needles and terrified riders.


Don't ever remember asking you or anyone else to celebrate Sutton.
And
"The latest revelations by Josh Edmondson seem a worrying insight" .... into the behaviour of Josh Edmondson.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... sky-153964

At some point professional cyclists have to take responsibility for their own behaviour. You can't keep blaming their team.
They are adults ......ish ....
The best wave of my life is still out there.

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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 2:41pm

landsurfer wrote:
mjr wrote:
landsurfer wrote:I strongly believe strongly in what Chris Boardman had to say on Radio 5 live " We must not lose sight of the fantastic world beating success we have achieved" (to paraphrase).
Sone times we get so caught upon the rights and wrongs we forget that we are (where?) the dominant world cycling nation ...

Never mind the ethics, feel the gold? :lol:

I do celebrate the fantastic world-beating success of Boardman, Cooke and (for now) Cavendish and Froome, among others... but I won't celebrate Shane Sutton and I've doubts about some of the others and am now waiting for the dust to settle to see if it's just dust. Why should I celebrate those? The latest revelations by Josh Edmondson seem a worrying insight into a 2013 Team Sky of needles and terrified riders.


Don't ever remember asking you or anyone else to celebrate Sutton.

Sorry but I thought "We must not lose sight of the fantastic world beating success we have achieved" was basically an instruction not to criticise HSBCUKBC because they claim to have won lots... including claiming the wins of people like Cooke who they mostly didn't support any more than they couldn't avoid.

And
"The latest revelations by Josh Edmondson seem a worrying insight" .... into the behaviour of Josh Edmondson.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/lates ... sky-153964

At some point professional cyclists have to take responsibility for their own behaviour. You can't keep blaming their team.
They are adults ......ish ....

Rather than a link from 2015, try the latest interview http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763

At some point, those running the publicly-funded HSBCUKBC/TeamSky fudge have to take responsibility for their own behaviour. You can't keep blaming a conveyor belt of riders (Josh, JTL, ...) and coaches and not ask why it keeps happening.
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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby andrew_s » 17 Mar 2017, 11:29pm

mjr wrote:You can't keep blaming a conveyor belt of riders (Josh, JTL, ...) and coaches and not ask why it keeps happening.

JTL did whatever he did at Endura, before he'd ever been recruited by Sky. You might criticise Sky's pre-employment checks, but since he seems not to have carried on doing it at Sky, and failed to perform as a result, I don't think you can use him as a stick to beat Sky with.
As for Josh, I'm not that surprised. The UK cycling press (C+ etc) has been making the use of supplements etc seem normal over a fair number of years, on a basis that if it's not banned it's OK, and if you've grown up that way, more efficient application via a needle may have seemed a small step.

mjr wrote:The independent panel found Varnish lost her funding “as an act of retaliation” for criticising coaching staff...

That was plainly obvious at the time, no enquiry needed.
Sutton has struck me as being of the view that his riders should do exactly what they are told and not think for themselves, not being tolerant of what he probably viewed as insubordination, and subscribing to the Fergie hairdryer school of motivation. Which last may work on some people, but others, knowing the likely result of answering back, will bottle up their resentment until they retire, forcibly or otherwise.
Last edited by andrew_s on 17 Mar 2017, 11:58pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Armitstead missed three drugs tests.

Postby mjr » 17 Mar 2017, 11:42pm

andrew_s wrote:
mjr wrote:You can't keep blaming a conveyor belt of riders (Josh, JTL, ...) and coaches and not ask why it keeps happening.

JTL did whatever he did before he'd ever been recruited by Sky. You might criticise Sky's pre-employment checks, but since he seems not to have carried on doing it at Sky, and failed to perform as a result, I don't think you can use him as a stick to beat Sky with.

JTL may only have joined the sky quasi-subsidiary late, but had been part of British Cycling teams off and on since 2005. Anyway, he's just one in the list.
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