Daft points race question

[sorenlorensen]

Hi all

As a recent convert to the joys of track racing, I'm still wrapping my head around the finer points of the way some of the races work. One thing that's been confusing me is related to the points race as run in the Rio olympics men's and women's omniums.

I understand that the race takes place over a set number of laps, and that points are given during sprint laps, and also for gaining a lap on the main field. What I'm unsure of is what happens if a rider gains a lap - does he then finish a lap before the rest of the field? And would that also not mean that he was a lap ahead, and so the sprint lap would start a lap earlier for him, and he'd then probably win them all ... ? Or does that extra lap that he's done not actually count towards the number of "laps" that he's raced, and he gets the 20 points, but is then still on lap (x) along with the rest of the field?

See, I told you it was daft ...

[Spinners]

I think when they lap the field they bank the 20pts in exchange for the gained lap. I enjoyed the two finals - very good TV.

[sorenlorensen]

Aye, that's what I assumed, but wasn't 100% sure. It's been fantastic TV.

[cycleruk]

Logically you would think that if someone gained a lap then they would be at the front of the race.
But watching the other night I noticed the official indicating someone else so I presumed, as above, that the gained lap didn't count, just the points.

[sjs]

Logically you would think that if someone gained a lap then they would be at the front of the race.
But watching the other night I noticed the official indicating someone else so I presumed, as above, that the gained lap didn't count, just the points.

You'd think that if the race became spread out over the whole circumference of the track, with some riders consistently faster than others (as maybe could happen in a lower level competition than the Olympics), it would become impossible to keep track of what was happening. Maybe with computer analysis of gps data it could be judged.

[freeflow]

It probably helps if you change the word 'race' for 'competition'.

[sorenlorensen]

It probably helps if you change the word 'race' for 'competition'.

Perfect, succinct explanation of it - makes sense when you put it like that. Thanks

[Brucey]

Logically you would think that if someone gained a lap then they would be at the front of the race.
But watching the other night I noticed the official indicating someone else so I presumed, as above, that the gained lap didn't count, just the points.

You'd think that if the race became spread out over the whole circumference of the track, with some riders consistently faster than others (as maybe could happen in a lower level competition than the Olympics), it would become impossible to keep track of what was happening. Maybe with computer analysis of gps data it could be judged.

I think they have technology, and that (in case the technology fails) at the Olympics they also have a man with a flag, who confirms where 'the front of the race' is.

Pretty much the same considerations apply to six-day races, I think.

cheers

[thirdcrank]

I think part of the confusion with the point-scoring, if not that caused by trying to work out things like which is the main bunch when riders are spread out over the track, is the need to incorporate the scoring into the overall scoring for the omnium. In a stand-alone event, laps taken are counted and they decide the finishing positions. (The number of laps taken is much greater in a longer event such as a six-day race.) Points are only used to separate riders who finish on the same lap. For the points race as a paert of an omnium, the laps have to be converted into points on an equitable basis so that they can be added to the overall points totals. With two riders in each team, as in a madison or six-day, the potential for confusion is even greater.

On a bit of an historic note, I think a lot of the grey area stuff in track racing goes back to the era of separate amateur and professional events. I've made a brief but unsuccessful internet search for Le train bleu. Of course, that's the name of a famous railway service, but readers of Jock Wadley may remember it was also the name of a cartel in six-day racing. I think the point is that the spectacle for the spectators was more important than the sporting integrity of some events. Vague rules allow everybody to stick to the script.

[Si]

It's like the green jersey in the TdF. Each set of 10 laps is a separate stage and the winner gets 5 pts. The winner on the final stage (the Champs-Élysées) doesn't win the race outright but just gets another lot of 5pts. However, unlike the TdF, if you get up early and arrive at the stage start long before the rest of them you get an extra 20pts for keenness

[andrew_s]

When the riders gaining the lap reach the back of the bunch, they get the 20 points and the front of the bunch becomes the front of the race, the gained lap being forgotten about. Effectively, it's 160 laps for the bunch, with extra (or lost*) laps being worth 20 points each.

* which means that riders sometimes finish with negative points

Thirdcrank's comment that "points are only used to separate riders who finish on the same lap" applies to the madison & 6 day, not the points race.