Goodbye then .. Chris Froome

[Vorpal]

Chris Boardman quit racing becaue he needed HRT for his osteopenia.

[Tangled Metal]

Salbutamol is used the the same reasons you take those hrt drugs, to put the user at a level they would have been without the medical condition, well as close as poss.

The level in the urine does not necessarily compare with amount taken. It is simply not known how much Froome took that day just by the urine test. It n is certainly not known that double the urine test limit = double the intake. I think it is been said earlier in this thread numerous times and with quotes or links I reckon too. Can anyone using the phrase "double the dose or similar please bear that in mind.

It's why this is an AAF, it's a possible dose above legal limits not certain. It does however result in a case of prove you're innocent not innocent until guilty. If Froome and Sky can't clear him through the science of pharmacokinetic testing then he will get a technical judgement against him. That will be he will be guilty of accidentally taking an overdose due to a bad day with asthma. It's not a doping case. As a result he'll get a short ban and a statement that he's accidentally overdosed. Or something like that. A kind of "don't make that mistake again" slap on the wrist.

That's the process and there's precedent with other sports and even pro cycling. However if you want let's just say he's taken twice the legal limit for performance gains and let's ban the cheat. Without any regard to the facts of the situation. It's the kind of thing twitter is good for.

[Vorpal]

I am deeply suspicious of the sudden increase in athletes with asthma- not only those who cycle in car fumes. It sometimes seems like every other one of them now has it. I wonder how many would have it if the drugs for it did not also enhance performance?

1) the drugs for asthma do not enhance performance
2) the prevalence of exercise induced asthma is increasing in the general population, probably due to a combination of better diagnosis, and increased rates from sedentary lifestyles, more awareness, and environmental factors, such as pollution

It is likely that diagnosis rate is higher amongst athletes than other groups because they push the envelope in terms of physical capability.

Some experiments have been done where groups of school children were taken and tested for exercise induced asthma, and prevalence rates were quite high. In this example, the rate was 23% http://indexmedicus.afro.who.int/iah/fu ... nduced.pdf

I would expect that rate to be somewhat lower among athletes, if only because the worst affected are unlikely to enter sport.

[Tangled Metal]

Why do you think ppl work EIA wouldn't enter sports and thus develop into athletes at the higher levels? I would have thought most ppl who could get EIA wouldn't know that until they took up sport and increased their exercise levels.

I got diagnosed with asthma after I had upped my efforts in an attempt at increasing speed and fitness. It also coincided with the start of the colder months in autumn. I was well into my 40s so not a top athlete by any means but in the past I did a lot of exercise and got reasonably fit as a result without showing any asthma symptoms. The gp thought it could be EIA but didn't know enough to confirm it so I just had asthma.

My point is EIA is not something you're going to find out about in normal life unless they normal life involves exercise and probably at intensity. That's sport you could say. I wonder if elevated rates of EIA in top athletes might have a relationship with the intensity of effort.

One more thing, salbutamol only works on asthma suffers when they have an attack. Anyone without EIA would not gain any benefit.

Except, of course, at vastly elevated dosage which isn't possible through an inhaler. That benefit would actively work against the endurance athlete. This benefit (which is very small) is only of benefit to body builders of which group there is some evidence of usage in the open classes (I believe that's where anything goes but not sure).

So all this discussion about numbers of pro cyclists with EUA isn't salbutamol being top high is an irrelevance. They get no benefit if they don't have it. Perhaps a placebo effect. Either way they manage to stick within the rules and there's no harm being done to them. As my gp said, salbutamol has a proven safety record with minimal side effects. It's why he told me to take it off I suspected an attack even if it turned out not to be the would be no harm. Safe. It's by doing this that I found out I'd actually been having asthma attacks for years without realising it

[Vorpal]

Why do you think ppl work EIA wouldn't enter sports and thus develop into athletes at the higher levels? I would have thought most ppl who could get EIA wouldn't know that until they took up sport and increased their exercise levels.

Many people wouldn't know until they took up sport, but the worst affected find out as children, participating in gym / PE or similar at school. When I was young, at least int he USA, one of the 'treatments' for exercise induced asthma was to avoid strenuous exercise.

I also think that some undiagnosed people find the symptoms off-putting, and end up avoiding strenuous exercise without understanding that they exhibits symptoms of undiagnosed EIA, rather than just being uncomfortably unfit. I did know one lady (anecdotal, I know) who learned to hate exercise. She would try to get into some exercise routine, being told repeatedly by her GP that a numebr of her health concerns were caused by lack of exercise. She ended up hating the way she felt, and quitting. She became quite heavy, which contributed to an eventual asthma diagnosis. It was only when, as a result of allergic asthma diagnosis, she was also tested for EIA, that she found out that she had (likely) suffered from it all of her life. Once it was treated, she started cycling again, and between cycling and diet, achieved remarkeable weight loss. She also didn't have any problem with allergic asthma once she was able to start exercising and lose weight.

[Tangled Metal]

However those with minor symptoms might not know as childhood only once they're older and competing at a higher level. A lot of these EIA suffering elite athletes could have it mildly. Doesn't matter if it's there salbutamol will help you recover to where you would be if you didn't have it. In your day to day life it isn't a problem but elite cycling is such an elevated level of competition even a small improvement by dealing with your mild EIA is a help in you achieving your potential. It's not cheating because you're returning to your pre- asthma attack level or just under it

[ANTONISH]

I'm not a great Froome enthusiast but my opinion is that he has adhered to the spirit of the TUE rules - and that probably he has unintentionally crossed the line.
I agree with Tom Dumoulin - if you are unfit to compete then you either have a bad day or take off your number and pull out of the race.
There are many riders who struggle on through an illness or carrying an injury - but TUE's create a grey area which can be exploited - as Shane Sutton has basically admitted to "gaming the system"
Out of competition treatment should be allowed within the rules - obviously Froome's treatment to cure his Bilharzia is a case in point.

That is harsh but there are many reasons why one may not be competitive and precluded from top competition.

[Vorpal]

First, some people will always game the system whether they are allowed to treat asthma or not. They will take something that isn't tested for, or find ways to make sure it doesn't turn up in drugs tests.

Secondly, we already exclude too many people from professional sports by putting limitations on homone ranges (which includes excluding people with naturally high hormone production), physical sexual characteristics, medical need to take banned substances, etc.

People cheat because everybody loves winners & the underlying culture encourages it. The way I see it, there are several possible choices

-We can spend millions on catching cheaters and enforcing rules, and still not catch everyone
-we can carry on as today, with rules in place, a regime to enforce it, and most people turning a blind eye to how people get round the rules
-we can remove the rules and educate the athletes; athletes will likely be under pressure to take drugs and abuse their bodies, but they won't get the biggest profit
-we can change the culture; this approach has worked, albeit slowly, in many other arenas, such as drink driving, industrial health & safety, etc.

But as long as there are coaches, managers, team doctors, etc. who believe it's okay to game the system, it will continue.

[Tangled Metal]

Salbutamol doesn't need a TUE. It's not a banned or restricted drug that needs one to be taken. You are allowed to take it subject to a few criteria. That is why it's not a doping offence but an adverse analytical finding.

Sorry about being pedantic about this but Froome doesn't have and doesn't need a TUE to take salbutamol.

[Username]

So Goodbye then ..
Chris Froome.
Cycle Master.
Hill Climber.
Never out of breath.
Now we know why....

He's not dead is he!?

[Paulatic]

Alive & well and now on Strava!
1000K in week one.

[Tangled Metal]

Alive & well and now on Strava!
1000K in week one.

That'll be the salbutamol working then!

[Paulatic]

With a cadence of 213 and 224km in 24C I hope he kept hydrated.

[cycleruk]

With a cadence of 213 and 224km in 24C I hope he kept hydrated.

https://www.strava.com/activities/1345710278
Average 23 mph.

[Paulatic]

Alive & well and now on Strava!
1000K in week one.

That'll be the salbutamol working then!

Interesting interview here http://road.cc/content/news/235285-lott ... e-cheating
Saying

Wellens, who received widespread praise after abandoning last year’s Tour de France rather than take otherwise banned medicine under a TUE, revealed that doctors had told him he could increase his lung capacity by 7 or 8 per cent if he used an inhaler.

And I think this important and the reason there are limits

He revealed that his brother had to abandon dreams of becoming a professional cyclist after he was diagnosed with exercise-induced asthma and turned down the drugs that would have let him continue racing because of the potential effect on his long-term health.