Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
landsurfer
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby landsurfer » 6 Mar 2018, 10:00am

F1 teams exploit, bend and subvert the rules as a matter of course.
But no one accuses the drivers of being unethical or cheating.
They just change the rules every year a bit closer towards the moving target of rules for all.

I have unwavering faith and respect for Sir Brad .... nothing i have seen in the press or media leads me to thing otherwise.
Imagine a sportsman being accused of not breaking the rules ... thats exactly what is happening here.
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hufty
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby hufty » 6 Mar 2018, 11:40am

If we don't maintain a distinction between improving the equipment via better tech and improving the human via better drugs then sport is doomed. Races will be won by whoever is able to handle the biggest lines of coke without organ failure.

Also, if they're all working within the rules as you think, why don't Sky just say yep we use drugs within the rules to give our cyclists a competitive edge.

Btw landsurfer it should be "you're" not "your" in your signature, unless I'm missing a joke or it's deliberate or something.
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landsurfer
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby landsurfer » 6 Mar 2018, 4:03pm

hufty wrote:Btw landsurfer it should be "you're" not "your" in your signature, unless I'm missing a joke or it's deliberate or something.


Well spotted .... now work it out ........ :)
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NUKe
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby NUKe » 6 Mar 2018, 5:39pm

Former pro cyclist Michael Rasmussen admitted to taking a litany of drugs during his cycling career, including Triamcinolone, the drug which Wiggins was administered on at least three occasions, once on the eve of his 2012 Tour de France victory.
from the evening Standard.

If it was the eve of his TdF victory of his 2012 victory then he had already won, as tradition dictates that the Yellow Jersey is just on ride to the finish.
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Paulatic
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby Paulatic » 6 Mar 2018, 5:48pm

NUKe wrote:
Former pro cyclist Michael Rasmussen admitted to taking a litany of drugs during his cycling career, including Triamcinolone, the drug which Wiggins was administered on at least three occasions, once on the eve of his 2012 Tour de France victory.
from the evening Standard.

If it was the eve of his TdF victory of his 2012 victory then he had already won, as tradition dictates that the Yellow Jersey is just on ride to the finish.

Still within the race and under races rules though?
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby pjclinch » 6 Mar 2018, 6:29pm

The issues for me are mainly that Sky came on to the scene saying they were going to be cleaner than the whitest clothes in a Persil advert, and transparent and accountable with it... and that just doesn't stand up any more. It's not against the rules, but it's the sort of thing that doesn't sit well with people.

Did BW go out of his way to cheat? I don't think so, but David Millar's suggestion that Sky were gaming the system, and Shane Sutton effectively confirming that, again fails to sit well with being the most ethically pure game in town.

I don't think BW deserves to lose any special shirts, but knowing he got at least the nice yellow one legally but supplied with Rocket Fuel that was injected rather at odds with his autobiography's claim of no needles does mean I think a lot less of the achievements, and the athlete that made them.

I didn't like Sky on the simple grounds that the most effective tactic they use is spending more money on riding firepower than anyone else can afford and letting them wear everyone else down, 10 out of 10 for effectiveness but about 3 for spectator interest. But when the things one might like them for (being clean, transparent and accountable) turn out to be dubious PR then I get to like them even less.

The F1 comparison is not a good one. F1 is in part a technical development competition, and building a car that works most effectively in the rules is very much part of the game. The point of UCI rules is generally to take the technical aspects out, or at least reduce them. if everyone is on an effectively interchangeable bike then it's about the athlete. F1 cars are not interchangeable, pro peloton bikes are. Asthma medicines are, as I increasingly understand it, not either.

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby Tiberius » 6 Mar 2018, 6:34pm

landsurfer wrote:F1 teams exploit, bend and subvert the rules as a matter of course.
But no one accuses the drivers of being unethical or cheating.
They just change the rules every year a bit closer towards the moving target of rules for all.

I have unwavering faith and respect for Sir Brad .... nothing i have seen in the press or media leads me to thing otherwise.
Imagine a sportsman being accused of not breaking the rules ... thats exactly what is happening here.




+1....That's how I see it.

I really hope that Team Sky come out fighting. I have no idea how the legal protocol works, but surely Team Sky have an avenue to fight back against these allegations.....those in the know I would be very grateful if you could please enlighten me.

The DCMS is some sort of government quango (yes/no ??) Can THEY be called into account ??....Or, if the whole investigation (hung/drawn/quatered) process is now 'done' where do we go from here ??

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby RickH » 6 Mar 2018, 6:42pm

hufty wrote:... and of course the whole thing about that package of non-prescription medicine that was couriered by some bizarre route and method from the UK to France even though there are pharmacies in France.
That's why it's a story.

I recall there was a British competitor who was found guilty of doping at the winter Olympics a while back. He got an over the counter product that contained a banned substance there (USA I think) when the UK version didn't have anything prohibited. Being what would seem overly cautious doesn't seem so to me in light of things like that.

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby roger » 6 Mar 2018, 8:32pm

As long as I hear and/or read of a football player "winning a penalty", I will wonder what has got into sport.

In this case there seems to be a journalistic witch hunt trying to get someone within the Sky world to crack. Today's Times is at its vitriolic best again. Someone refers to BW on some pretext or other and happily cuts and pastes from their seemingly large database of significant BW, which seems to have the good area locked out.
In the business section there is a piece on the Trinity group accompanied with photo of 3 of the group's nationals. the Daily Mirror cover shows a picture of a yellowed jerseyed cyclist, with the caption "Wiggins doping storm". Never miss an opportunity.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby mjr » 6 Mar 2018, 8:58pm

Tiberius wrote:The DCMS is some sort of government quango (yes/no ??) Can THEY be called into account ??....Or, if the whole investigation (hung/drawn/quatered) process is now 'done' where do we go from here ??

The DCMS select committee that published the report is a committee of the House of Commons that holds the government to account. Government part-funds British Cycling, through UK Sport, including appointing director(s) I think, so that's why they've grounds to investigate this. I suspect the only way to hold the committee to account is to write to your MP asking them to challenge whatever gets brought to the house from the report.

As to where we go from here: some of the recommendations suggest new laws criminalising sporting supply of drugs for non-therapeutic reasons and basically criminalising the sort of failure to produce records that BC and Sky did. I think that's a bit weak, but the report dismisses the idea of police going after drug cheats like France does.
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby thirdcrank » 6 Mar 2018, 9:18pm

Yes. Select committees are official parliamentary bodies, each covering a government department, in this case Culture, Media and Sport. They can call witnesses and so on, usually being able to rely on Parliament to support them if anybody won't play ball. They are often confused in the public eye with Parliamentary All-Party Committees which are really just bunches of MP's with similar interests.

As with all things connected with party politics, there are all sorts of sub-plots and it's not without a bit of grandstanding for the cameras. I've not followed this very closely, but if there is a sub-plot it might be more about the Murdoch empire than any anti-cycling bias.

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby mig » 6 Mar 2018, 9:58pm

leaving this rider with his wins to one side for the moment, for how long might these practices have happened however un/ethical?

maybe at the velodrome in training with the GB squad before the sky road team was brought into being? is that the next investigation?

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby cotterpins » 6 Mar 2018, 10:35pm

Surely competition is all about playing on a level playing field. With over a hundred-plus riders in The Tour are they all tested!
I would think that going on the record of the last 70 years it has been level! Know what I mean, wink, wink, wink. There is nothing new in aiding performance. If they disqualified every guilty one, the "Daily Mail" would need more than four pages to prattle on about it. To quote an old five times Tour winner: "You don't think we ride all this distance without any extra help. do you!" not an exact quote . . . but near enough!

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby rualexander » 7 Mar 2018, 12:57am

RickH wrote:I recall there was a British competitor who was found guilty of doping at the winter Olympics a while back. He got an over the counter product that contained a banned substance there (USA I think) when the UK version didn't have anything prohibited. Being what would seem overly cautious doesn't seem so to me in light of things like that.


Alain Baxter and Vicks Inhaler https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Baxter

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby RickH » 7 Mar 2018, 9:34am

rualexander wrote:
RickH wrote:I recall there was a British competitor who was found guilty of doping at the winter Olympics a while back. He got an over the counter product that contained a banned substance there (USA I think) when the UK version didn't have anything prohibited. Being what would seem overly cautious doesn't seem so to me in light of things like that.


Alain Baxter and Vicks Inhaler https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alain_Baxter

Thanks for the link - I was on a train using my phone on a rather slow link when I was typing my response so working off shaky memory rather than finding the specifics.