Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
brynpoeth
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Mar 2018, 10:04am

cotterpins wrote:Surely competition is all about playing on a level playing field. With over a hundred-plus riders in The Tour are they all tested!
I would think that going on the record of the last 70 years it has been level! Know what I mean, wink, wink, wink. There is nothing new in aiding performance. If they disqualified every guilty one, the "Daily Mail" would need more than four pages to prattle on about it. To quote an old five times Tour winner: "You don't think we ride all this distance without any extra help. do you!" not an exact quote . . . but near enough!

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Tiberius
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby Tiberius » 7 Mar 2018, 1:06pm

mjr/thirdcrank...

Thank you for enlightening me.....Appreciated...... :)

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hondated
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby hondated » 7 Mar 2018, 5:38pm

reohn2 wrote:
NUKe wrote:
softlips wrote:No one seems to be mentioning Mo Farah, who apparently did the same as Wiggins.

It’s a bit rich for MPs to lambast a sportsman for not technically braking the rules but exploiting them to the nth degree when they did (and do) the same with their expenses.

If we had a like button

+1

+1

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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby landsurfer » 7 Mar 2018, 5:48pm

hondated wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
NUKe wrote:If we had a like button

+1

+1

+1
RSF.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Mar 2018, 6:19pm

landsurfer wrote:
hondated wrote:
reohn2 wrote:+1

+1

+1


+1 for the signature, I think I know who JW is :)
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Cunobelin
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby Cunobelin » 7 Mar 2018, 6:33pm

pjclinch wrote:The issues for me are mainly that Sky came on to the scene saying they were going to be cleaner than the whitest clothes in a Persil advert, and transparent and accountable with it... and that just doesn't stand up any more. It's not against the rules, but it's the sort of thing that doesn't sit well with people.

Did BW go out of his way to cheat? I don't think so, but David Millar's suggestion that Sky were gaming the system, and Shane Sutton effectively confirming that, again fails to sit well with being the most ethically pure game in town.

I don't think BW deserves to lose any special shirts, but knowing he got at least the nice yellow one legally but supplied with Rocket Fuel that was injected rather at odds with his autobiography's claim of no needles does mean I think a lot less of the achievements, and the athlete that made them.

I didn't like Sky on the simple grounds that the most effective tactic they use is spending more money on riding firepower than anyone else can afford and letting them wear everyone else down, 10 out of 10 for effectiveness but about 3 for spectator interest. But when the things one might like them for (being clean, transparent and accountable) turn out to be dubious PR then I get to like them even less.

The F1 comparison is not a good one. F1 is in part a technical development competition, and building a car that works most effectively in the rules is very much part of the game. The point of UCI rules is generally to take the technical aspects out, or at least reduce them. if everyone is on an effectively interchangeable bike then it's about the athlete. F1 cars are not interchangeable, pro peloton bikes are. Asthma medicines are, as I increasingly understand it, not either.

Pete.



This was the interesting thing for me, it is now the "ethics" as opposed to the actual doping.

The concept is that they are using medicinal products for purposes other than treatment, in other words to increase performance.

Technically there was nothing illegal, but this has always been the practice, use drug until it gets on to the banned list then stop and find a new one.



What could be interesting is if this results in a change in doping laws.

Is it practicable to make it a "doping offence" to use any drug for a purpose other than the designated medicinal benefit?

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mjr
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby mjr » 8 Mar 2018, 11:51am

Cunobelin wrote:What could be interesting is if this results in a change in doping laws.

Is it practicable to make it a "doping offence" to use any drug for a purpose other than the designated medicinal benefit?

In theory, that's already the case for the TUE system, with any possibly-performance-enhancing medication being reviewed by a UCI doctor as well as the team's. There are two flaws with this: UCI has been accused of complicity many times before (most famously Lance and a backdated TUE and a donation for a testing machine under Hein Verbruggen); and ultimately, how can you see inside a team doctor's mind and determine their purpose for a particular drug choice isn't what they say it is? Hooking team doctors up to lie detectors would be time consuming and probably a bit unreliable, while a UCI or WADA doctor is never going to know a rider as well as their regular doctor to debunk claims of past ineffectiveness of alternative treatments.

Maybe the anti-doping agencies should employ all team doctors and then the teams pay the ADAs for medical services? Presumably ADAs wouldn't cover up a doctor not keeping records like Team Sky apparently did. But teams would probably object that they or riders couldn't even choose the doctors even as much as ordinary NHS patients can, or if they can hire and fire ADA doctors, then it would probably fall foul of various employment and competition laws, as well as leave the ADAs open to practical blackmail by teams. I don't think it's workable.

It might be simpler to make lost/unavailable records similar to a whereabouts failure, so screwing up gets a rider banned for the same time as doping anyway - or a team's licence revoked, depending on the scale of missing records. And probably the team doctor banned too.
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Re: Goodbye then .. SIR Bradley Wiggins

Postby brynpoeth » 8 Mar 2018, 5:27pm

When I took up cycling I did admire Eddy Merckx and Barry Hoban (I met him once!)

On the one hand, cycling champions inspire us
On the other hand they may have cheated, like the one who did not win the TdF seven times

Should we admire or despise them?
Both maybe, at the same time :wink:
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins & Mo Farah

Postby Paulatic » 19 Mar 2018, 7:23pm

softlips wrote:No one seems to be mentioning Mo Farah, who apparently did the same as Wiggins.

It’s a bit rich for MPs to lambast a sportsman for not technically braking the rules but exploiting them to the nth degree when they did (and do) the same with their expenses.


Mo Farah appears to work along the same lines as LA did. Say anything and his legal team are on you as one journalist recently found to his cost.

Current knowledge on Mo is https://amp.independent.ie/sport/other- ... ssion=true
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brynpoeth
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby brynpoeth » 23 Mar 2018, 6:01am

'Sir Mohamed' Farah if you please :wink:

Is he related to Farrah Fawcett-Majors?
Is she related to Sir John Major?
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Re: Goodbye then .. Bradley Wiggins

Postby GasPipeWarrior » 22 Jul 2018, 8:43pm