Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

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TrevA
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby TrevA » 27 Mar 2018, 1:20pm

We had this a few years ago with the Outlaw Triathlon closing many roads on the east side of Nottingham. It caused a lot of ill feeling by motorists towards cyclists. The Outlaw still happens but is now on open roads, with a few sets of traffic lights turned off and some junctions closed. This causes some minor inconvenience to people and you do get bunches of riders holding up traffic a little, but on the whole it is well received by the local community. Many local villagers will come out and cheer the riders on. Motorists don't mind being held up for a few seconds, but will object strongly to being prevented from using a road.

I think these types of closed road sportives are not viable in this country, unless it's in a very sparsely populated area. The problem is that roses are closed for hours on end. I used to attend the aisle of Man Cycling Week, where there were similar day long road closures which also caused a lot of ill feeling and led to the demise of the week in the end.

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby mjr » 27 Mar 2018, 5:34pm

Si wrote:Ateotd, the ultimate goal for velo is to make as much money as possible for the organisers. The ultimate aim for the city-ride type event is to get as many people on bikes as possible. Both are lots of fun for the riders, but i know which id rather support.

Can we do anything to stop the likes of velo and Ian Thatcher both coming out with a load of bull [inappropriate word removed] and ordinary cycling getting caught in the crossfire?
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby mjr » 27 Mar 2018, 5:40pm

squeaker wrote:I'm still not comfortable with the concept, especially give the rural nature of the route, on the basis of excluding all but an 'elite' group from the roads concerned - unlike car free days etc.. (I would include closed roads car rallies, and any public space exclusion in this discomfort.)

In events like Velo, couldn't they leave part of the carriageway available for transport cycling?

I've no concerns about the rural nature of the route. People seem unaware just how often rural main roads are closed for works because it's usually 8pm-6am or weekends when fewer people travel. I notice it more because I live on a rural main road that is often used as an alternative route when neighbouring roads are closed (when it's not itself closed!).

So I don't see closing one weekend for a sports event as anything like as disruptive as closing at evenings/weekends for months at a run - and that's already so undisruptive that many people don't notice unless they try to use the closed section (and often have to drive up to 20 miles diversion or try to remember which fen or forest minor roads are safe for cars and which are iffy single-track with grass up the middle...)
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brynpoeth
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby brynpoeth » 27 Mar 2018, 5:50pm

TrevA wrote:We had this a few years ago with the Outlaw Triathlon closing many roads on the east side of Nottingham. It caused a lot of ill feeling by motorists towards cyclists. The Outlaw still happens but is now on open roads, with a few sets of traffic lights turned off and some junctions closed. This causes some minor inconvenience to people and you do get bunches of riders holding up traffic a little, but on the whole it is well received by the local community. Many local villagers will come out and cheer the riders on. Motorists don't mind being held up for a few seconds, but will object strongly to being prevented from using a road.

I think these types of closed road sportives are not viable in this country, unless it's in a very sparsely populated area. The problem is that roses are closed for hours on end. I used to attend the aisle of Man Cycling Week, where there were similar day long road closures which also caused a lot of ill feeling and led to the demise of the week in the end.

aisle of Man, is that a church? +1
Are the motorcycle events still held there?
Cycling? Of course, but it is far better on a Gillott.. Alternative facts welcome

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TrevA
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby TrevA » 28 Mar 2018, 2:59pm

brynpoeth wrote:aisle of Man, is that a church? +1
Are the motorcycle events still held there?


Ah, the damned predictive text! Yes, motorbike races are still held there. The IOM has special laws which enable roads to be closed easily. These are used for the TT races and were also used to closed the roads for Cycling week. The IOM has some youth and junior cycle races on closed roads, but these are on smaller circuits which don't cause as much disruption. Some of the the Cycling Week races were held on the TT course which closes the main roads on the island and causes quite a bit of disruption.

Lorrimer12
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Lorrimer12 » 24 Jun 2018, 4:01pm

Vélo South has only just let the residents and work force of West Sussex know that they have applied to have 100 miles of roads to be closed. There is massive opposition against the road closures both within the circular route and outside it. This race has not been given the final go ahead and petitions are rapidly put together to prevent it happening. Watch this space.

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby tatanab » 24 Jun 2018, 4:46pm

^^ pedantic point, but important. A sportive is not a race. Recently somebody here described London to Brighton charity ride as a race, which it is not either. It is important that cyclists use the right terms because the general public seem to think that more than 2 cyclists together means it is a race even if said riders have saddlebags and mudguards etc.

Apart from that, I sympathise. A closed road sportive near me caused bad feeling and letters to papers, MPs and so on. I am not a fan of such events but I do puzzle that people grumble about closed road cycling events but are happy to lean on their garden gates to applaud marathon runners on closed roads.

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gaz
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby gaz » 24 Jun 2018, 10:06pm

Lorrimer12 wrote:Vélo South has only just let the residents and work force of West Sussex know that they have applied to have 100 miles of roads to be closed.

https://www.velosouth.com/the-route/road-closures/

Lorrimer12 wrote:This race has not been given the final go ahead ...

It's on the WSCC events list: https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/campaigns ... ing-event/

jgurney
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby jgurney » 25 Jun 2018, 9:12am

squeaker wrote:[i].... frustration with road dominance and poor etiquette.


I am sometimes left feeling annoyed at road dominance and poor etiquette by motorists after walking or cycling along rural roads.

Let's be clear: cycling is exclusive and not inclusive.


Really? Surely the number of people in Britain physically capable of cycling exceeds the number with driving licences?

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Lorrimer12 » 26 Jun 2018, 11:20am

Vélo South is exclusive. Not everyone is welcome to take part. This is not a charity event. The riders are welcome to raise money for a charity but the company makes a profit. The road closures are being petition against due to the circular nature as 120000 homes will be effectively shut in for 8 hours. No access to work, cycling, sport, horse riding, church etc. 15000 rider’s fun, over 250000 people’s liberty.

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby mjr » 26 Jun 2018, 3:45pm

Lorrimer12 wrote:Vélo South is exclusive. Not everyone is welcome to take part. This is not a charity event. The riders are welcome to raise money for a charity but the company makes a profit. The road closures are being petition against due to the circular nature as 120000 homes will be effectively shut in for 8 hours. No access to work, cycling, sport, horse riding, church etc. 15000 rider’s fun, over 250000 people’s liberty.

No bridges or even marshalled crossings out of that circle? Sounds unlikely.

Residents could take the chance to reclaim the streets. Our major road was blocked off overnight last week by major repairs. 12 hours a day, every day for a week. As well as some smaller repairs also being done without further closures because of the greatly reduced traffic volumes (maybe 1% of usual), it was great fun riding up the wide carriageway usually dominated by motorists. We should have had a street party and projected the football or a film onto a building. :lol: Road closures could be good for everyone.
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ianrobo
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby ianrobo » 26 Jun 2018, 7:22pm

oh we had the same old moaning for the Birmingham one but it was great and actually relatively few moans post event ...

In fact we saw plenty of people walking, dogs, others cycling on closed roads and it was great to see.

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Lorrimer12 » 27 Jun 2018, 3:41pm

Please don’t let this be a ‘love the or loath them’ debate. No one else will be allowed to use the 100 miles of closed roads other than those cyclists who have paid to enter this sportive. The shop in Compton won’t be accessible to any but the few residents who live on that side of the village. Most residents won’t be able to access church and some won’t be able to reach their place of work or check their stock and no other cyclists can use the roads. This is a civil liberties debate and the restrictions won’t do the cycling fraternity any favours. Vélo South have created an enormous island which will become inaccessible. There is a petition currently running but so few residents know about the road closures yet. The whole thing smacks of the hitch hikers guide to the galaxy and where to find the plans for the new highway. Clever though as Vélo south’s own T and Cs state that they reserve the right to change the date and venue so if the event doesn’t go ahead there is little chance of getting any money back. The private company already has the money. My concerns aren’t about the reactions of those who have found out, it is of those who will find out in September.

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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby mjr » 27 Jun 2018, 5:20pm

Lorrimer12 wrote:Please don’t let this be a ‘love the or loath them’ debate. No one else will be allowed to use the 100 miles of closed roads other than those cyclists who have paid to enter this sportive.

Presumably the council is charging for the use of these roads so your council tax gets reduced? And how many miles of roads will remain open for people to cycle or drive on?

The shop in Compton won’t be accessible to any but the few residents who live on that side of the village. Most residents won’t be able to access church and some won’t be able to reach their place of work or check their stock and no other cyclists can use the roads.

Are there really going to be no crossings? And is walking being banned too then?

This is a civil liberties debate and the restrictions won’t do the cycling fraternity any favours.

There is no "cycling fraternity" and motoring is not a civil liberty. Do you think each road closure for repairs is an infringement of civil liberties?

Maybe Velo South should do more to publicise it, but why would they if the council you elected are willing to agree to it? Given they've already moved from Birmingham, it seems likely that they may move to yet another area next year.
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Re: Velo South closed roads sportive - good idea?!?

Postby Bez » 27 Jun 2018, 6:04pm

Lorrimer12 wrote:Please don’t let this be a ‘love the or loath them’ debate … the restrictions won’t do the cycling fraternity any favours.


It does sort of come across as a "love them or loathe them" thing, though, when you say that it "won't do the cycling fraternity any favours". It's one company organising an event: any responsibility for that event lies with them, not with an imaginary collective that includes everyone who rides a bike.

Anyhoo…

Lorrimer12 wrote:Vélo South have created an enormous island which will become inaccessible.


That would be a huge problem if it were true, but is it? Looking at the route I can't imagine for a moment that this can be the case: the A272 and A24 run right through it, and a cycling event isn't going to close two major roads like that just for the sake of two crossing points on each.

Surely there must be, as is normal for similar events, marshalled crossings and/or a rolling road closure planned? (The minimum speed requirement is consistent with a rolling closure, so that roads can be reopened without significant numbers of participants remaining on them.)

If this really was going to cause the issue you suggest, the strong objection would be wholly understandable, but to fully close an area of 100 miles perimeter for a whole day would be unprecedented, unnecessary and unbelievable.

Without wishing to dismiss concerns about the lesser but nonetheless real implications of a rolling road closure, what is the evidence which points to the assumed total isolation?