Giro d'Italia

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
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pjclinch
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by pjclinch »

ianrobo wrote:
pjclinch wrote:Reality, however, is there ain't no such thing as an "easy" Maglia Rosa, and the winner will have earned it the hard, 3 week way.


any by doping or does Yates get a free pass because he is a Brit, oh sorry his doctor 'forgot' to apply for a TUE, innocent mistake. Note if we believe Velon's power figures, on a 1KM stretch he did less WATTS than Poz but was 1.5kph faster, but some will believe it was because he was more aero (though most people recognise he is heavier !)

Does not figure does it ?


What wouldn't figure is that some Interweb random has all the information that might possibly affect performance.

If SY was putting out less power then any drug fuelled assistance would still mean, errrr, less power. Drugs don't interfere with power meter readings.

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mjr
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by mjr »

I think the accusation is that he's motored.

I'm surprised ianrobo got close enough to hear how hard they were breathing.
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djnotts
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by djnotts »

"... he's motored."

But not a Motorhead surely - such old school gear!! (One for old timer heads like I....)
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pjclinch
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by pjclinch »

mjr wrote:I think the accusation is that he's motored.


I won't 100% rule it out because you never know... but I'd be very surprised at World Tour level. It's not that I wouldn't put it past someone to cheat at the top, especially given the track record, but for "mechanical doping" you'd need the active collusion of the team and the whole game would be instantly over for everyone as soon as anything turned up. So while I'm not surprised at a French vet roadie or a Belgian junior cyclo-crosser trying it on as individuals, I think we're in hat eating territory for a current World Tour GC contender.

And yes, of course we've seen team-level cheating with Lance's shenanigans but I think we have moved on at least a little since then, and adding a motor is not something you can pretend is anything other than what it is. B-sample contamination? Dodgy steak? They don't really cut it... I didn't realise my electronic shifting only needed a hundredth as powerful a battery as this and I hadn't noticed the extra button on my bars?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Yates not responding........................showing his teeth......................Froomey gets the lipstick............
Doumolin still on schedule to win for sure as Yates needs 2-3 minutes for TT..................
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pjclinch
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by pjclinch »

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Yates not responding........................showing his teeth......................Froomey gets the lipstick............
Doumolin still on schedule to win for sure as Yates needs 2-3 minutes for TT..................


But as TD pointed out himself, there's quite a few mountain stages beyond the TT. Looking like it could go down to the wire, which as a spectator happy for either of the two currently at the front to win is all good.
Could well be the inverse of last year, where the final TT decided whether TD could catch up, with the mountains seeing if SY can catch up. Thus far the race has reinforced the GdI as my favourite Grand Tour.

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Postboxer
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by Postboxer »

I've just been looking through the upcoming stages, tomorrow looks like it could be eventful, it might not, but there might be a lot of tired legs after today and it being the day before the rest day. I think it could be very close after the time trial, Yates may even retain the lead, then it will be a very interesting Thursday, Friday and Saturday, where anything could happen. And it usually does. It would be spectacular but not impossible for Chris Froome to win it.
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by ianrobo »

pjclinch wrote:
mjr wrote:I think the accusation is that he's motored.


I won't 100% rule it out because you never know.


but we do know it ...

We have had one case confirmed albeit a minor player. We have had Boonen and Gaimon basically accuse Cancerella of it.

We then had Eddy Plankaert a couple of weeks ago saying motors were used in his days.

Then watch yesterday's stage or the infamous Ventoux one and try and explain that without a motor or how Fresh Yates has looked compared to others.

We had Lance storm out of an interview with Irish radio station when asked about motors and then cancel an appearance.

Finally we had the UCI up their usual iPad checks to something more substantial because they were clearly worried and rightly so. You do not need a big battery pack for this, just an extra 20W for a few mins at a crucial time is enough.
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by pjclinch »

ianrobo wrote:
pjclinch wrote:
mjr wrote:I think the accusation is that he's motored.


I won't 100% rule it out because you never know.


but we do know it ...

We have had one case confirmed albeit a minor player. We have had Boonen and Gaimon basically accuse Cancerella of it.


We've actually got two minor cases confirmed, as I pointed out. But the thing about minor players is they're minor players with nothing much to lose and not actually that much scrutiny. We have seen Spartacus accused... but we haven't seen any evidence. It could just be that a multiple world champion is, hey! actually pretty good at racing bikes!

ianrobo wrote:Then watch yesterday's stage or the infamous Ventoux one and try and explain that without a motor or how Fresh Yates has looked compared to others.


I sometimes wonder if you've ever ridden a bike much and pushed yourself. Some days you can sail along and others you feel like getting off. Form varies, and I can't imagine being in a 3 week race doesn't exaggerate that. How do I explain Chloe Dygert's dominance of women's IP? Katie Archibald reckons she's better than everyone else, and I think I'll go with that, but I guess the USCF might have put their credibility on the line and snuck a motor in there...

ianrobo wrote:We had Lance storm out of an interview with Irish radio station when asked about motors and then cancel an appearance.


Lance not a great example as we know he was up for team level cheating, and using his wealth and prestige to ruin anyone who questioned him. Don't see that at Mitchelton Scott...

ianrobo wrote:Finally we had the UCI up their usual iPad checks to something more substantial because they were clearly worried and rightly so. You do not need a big battery pack for this, just an extra 20W for a few mins at a crucial time is enough.


It clearly needs to be looked at because we've seen cheats, and it certainly doesn't make sense to check low level races but not grand tours. However, what I said about the consequences and scrutiny levels at WT level remain the case.

What I do wonder is if people are so absolutely convinced that the leaders are surely cheating why they bother watching it? Any time anyone does an amazing race they're "obviously" cheating. What are you after, a celebration of the unexceptional?

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thirdcrank
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by thirdcrank »

I've a poor track record when it comes to suspecting cheating. Perhaps most naïve of all was believing that the chemo had taught LA how to suffer. Long before LA was exposed, I used to comment about his able lieutenant Floyd Landis that he looked as though he was riding a motor bike.

When he was exposed in his turn, the ruse was obvious with the exact science of hindsight. Ride hard working for the leader all day, bury yourself and then get shot out of the back and never win anything other than the gratitude of the team and its leader. Above all, never get tested.

I only mention this to suggest that if there is concern about mechanical assistance, then the commissaires might do well to look at the bikes of riders who sacrifice themselves then fall from contention.

At the technical level, I assume that the bottom bracket is the most likely hiding place. Why not a UCI regulation that bottom bracket shells should have an inspection port? On the point of it only needing a bit of extra power at key moments, that seems more feasible on the flat, since when it's hilly, ever oz counts and it's a lot to lug about for occasional use.
reohn2
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by reohn2 »

TBH I'm amazed anyone thinks elec assist is even worth considering as a way of cheating in pro cycle racing,a motor and battery are the easiest to test for and spot,it's either there or it isnt.
Take a look see is there a motor?
No.
End of.
The Cancelara affair was ridiculous in the extreme,I remember laughing outloud when I read about it

Doping,should there be any,is in the rider and the name of the game is avoiding detection.
And even then it's marginal gains and the gain needs only be single figure percentages to do the job with the top ten riders in any grand tour.
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hondated
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by hondated »

I,ve not bothered to read previous contributions to this thread but having watched todays stage all I will say and its without any proof whatsoever that I am getting rather concerned at just how good Simon Yates is riding.
Hopefully I am wrong but the last time I saw a rider riding like this was when Bjarne Riis rode up the Hautacam and eventually won the Tour.
Just saying :(
djnotts
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by djnotts »

The clue is of course whether or not Mr Kelly uses the word "unbelievable" in his commentary. I've not watched/listened to all the live broadcast so am unsighted on this!
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
I was going to say Doumolin and Froomey had a bad day...........................at one point....
Yates was on 400 w for cadence 76.......380w for 80.
Doumolin 400w for 85.
Froomey 470 w for 84.

Yates does look very good and even gained time going down hill.........................over the heavier Doumolin and Froomey.....
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Postboxer
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Re: Giro d'Italia

Post by Postboxer »

I'm sure Bernie Eisel the other day nearly said something like 'It looks like he had a motor' but stopped at the m and said something else, he wasn't making an accusation which I think is why he stopped, I think he was just making the point that someone, probably Yates but I can't remember, was making it look easy.

I've not been following their respective seasons but assuming he'll be riding the Tour de France, it will be interesting to see if Adam Yates has had/is undergoing the same training plan to prepare him for the tour, as Simon has had for the Giro.

I've just been trying to find the start times for the time trial on Tuesday, as Yates leads by 2 minutes 11 seconds so a 2 minute start deficit would be interesting.
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