Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
thelawnet
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Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby thelawnet » 16 Oct 2018, 2:14pm

This was a track race, and the Masters (age 35-39) championship, run by Dr. Rachel McKinnon a philosophy professor, formerly Rhys McKinnon who changed gender around 10 years ago or so.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-li ... 62323f2d0b

Apparently the third place rider was upset, the second-place rider is ok with it, but it's only semi-relevant, as under UCI rules anyone can compete in female cycling if they suppress their testosterone levels below 10 nmol/l for at least a year prior to competing.

McKinnon thinks it's not unfair because :

"3rd place (Jennifer Wagner) claims it's unfair for me to compete. At Masters Worlds, she beat me in the 500m TT. She beat me in 6 of 7 races at the 2017 Intelligentsia Cup. In 2016 she beat me in all 3 Speed Week crits. She's won 11 of our 13 races

...and it's unfair? Excuse me?"

By the same token it would be fair for me, as a man, to compete in women's races because well I'd lose. It's strange that as a Professor of Philosophy, they don't study logic.

Bez
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby Bez » 16 Oct 2018, 2:23pm

I think you've overlooked the more basic logic that she's a woman and you're not.

Anyway, I don't think it was intended as a logical proof, merely to imply that Wagner's argument is specious. (Especially if this is—and I've no idea if it is or not—the first time she's complained of unfairness.)

thelawnet
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby thelawnet » 16 Oct 2018, 2:46pm

Bez wrote:I think you've overlooked the more basic logic that she's a woman and you're not.


That's hardly logic. If I declare myself a woman, I am one, just as McKinnon did in this case. There is no process of verification beyond 'I declare that I am a woman', and 'here are my test results showing my testosterone is suppressed'.

There is nothing rooted in objective, testable reality that distinguishes me from another person with male biology who has declared themselves to be female, and only a year of testosterone suppressants separating me from being able to compete legally as female.

landsurfer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby landsurfer » 16 Oct 2018, 5:03pm

"Women don't have a penis."

End of.

Feminist sticker campaign in Glasgow and other cities. It led to a female being arrested for a "hate crime".

I now identify as a feminist, male but a feminist.
“I’m responsible only for what I say, not what you understand.”

The Road Goes on Forever.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Oct 2018, 5:52pm

This is a difficult and sensitive subject, and a public forum.

Note that the transgender population is vulnerable to hate crimes,

[edited on wise advice]

Approaching the issue with sensitivity and a desire to understand all perspectives, rather than being too eager to take sides, seems wise.

At least to me, it does not seem obvious there is a clear "right" answer to who has the correct approach, the ladies in first and second or the one who placed third.
Last edited by roubaixtuesday on 16 Oct 2018, 6:08pm, edited 1 time in total.

thelawnet
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby thelawnet » 16 Oct 2018, 6:00pm

<edited by request>
Last edited by thelawnet on 16 Oct 2018, 6:19pm, edited 1 time in total.

landsurfer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby landsurfer » 16 Oct 2018, 6:06pm

Having direct experience of living, coping with, and supporting a transgender child, i stick with my original comments.

Women's hard fought for rights are being destroyed on the anvil of "transgender" and all the other self identifying "genders" that appear day by day.
No girl should have to be exposed to a penis in her changing room.
Last edited by landsurfer on 16 Oct 2018, 8:19pm, edited 2 times in total.
“I’m responsible only for what I say, not what you understand.”

The Road Goes on Forever.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Oct 2018, 6:06pm

It wasn't intended as a weapon - but i will take your advice and edit out. I suggest you do the same from your quote.

Thank you

landsurfer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby landsurfer » 16 Oct 2018, 6:17pm

roubaixtuesday

What a brilliant sign in name ..... :D

My favourite version is by Melanie Safka ....
“I’m responsible only for what I say, not what you understand.”

The Road Goes on Forever.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby roubaixtuesday » 16 Oct 2018, 7:21pm

landsurfer wrote:roubaixtuesday

What a brilliant sign in name ..... :D

My favourite version is by Melanie Safka ....


Thanks! just had a listen via miracle of Spotify.

Perhaps we should have a thread of musical cycling puns.

landsurfer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby landsurfer » 17 Oct 2018, 9:57am

I wonder if the lack of comment on this post is down to the web of fear that exists around anyone challenging anything to do with the LGBTQ "community".
“I’m responsible only for what I say, not what you understand.”

The Road Goes on Forever.

brynpoeth
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby brynpoeth » 17 Oct 2018, 9:59am

Most of us know little about it
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Bez
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby Bez » 17 Oct 2018, 10:18am

landsurfer wrote:I wonder if the lack of comment on this post is down to the web of fear that exists around anyone challenging anything to do with the LGBTQ "community".


Maybe it's simply down to a lot of people being pretty relaxed about this sort of thing and not thinking there's actually much to comment on.

landsurfer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby landsurfer » 17 Oct 2018, 12:19pm

Bez wrote:Maybe it's simply down to a lot of people being pretty relaxed about this sort of thing and not thinking there's actually much to comment on.



Good point ..... However...https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ ... t-stopped/
“I’m responsible only for what I say, not what you understand.”

The Road Goes on Forever.

Postboxer
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Re: Transgender woman wins cycling championship

Postby Postboxer » 17 Oct 2018, 7:29pm

Would someone be allowed to compete if they took testosterone for years then stopped a year ago? Just remembered this is going on at the moment -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/45880309

I think a new term is needed for LGBTQ as it keeps getting longer. Too long already, what if more letters are added?