2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
mattheus
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mattheus » 4 Jun 2019, 2:20pm

I would observe that Lopez suffered* enormously in terms of the race results (and thus possibly his career). I view that as punishment enough.

But I'm sure we will continue to disagree on this - I've had similar discussions before, and there are always armchair experts who think athletes should be whiter-than-white in the face of any provocation. Whereas I see human frailties as part of sport's (and life's!) rich pageant.

It's sport - we are bound to disagree on something :)



*Meanwhile Roglic got a tangible benefit from his "crime" - perhaps that's why he was fined but Lopez was not?

reohn2
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby reohn2 » 4 Jun 2019, 2:33pm

As you say being an armchair observer(I never claimed to be an expert of any kind)we'll disagree on things.
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mjr » 4 Jun 2019, 4:22pm

Brucey wrote:However this time it was a spectator of the 'running numpty' variety who collided with Lopez, who hit the deck.

Not exactly: running numpty collided with daft static numpty who dropped his shoulder into the runner (at 0:40s in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOKuH6iOHcs ), pushing him into Lopez...

The UCI are reviewing the race jury's inaction, according to http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-jur ... npunished/ - I don't know how long it will be before there's any ruling, though.
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby Brucey » 4 Jun 2019, 6:29pm

possibly Mr Static Numpty saw that there was no way to get out of the way of Mr Running Numpty in time, in which case you would naturally brace for collision. Self preservation and drop-offs being what they are, the last thing Mr Static Numpty might have wanted is to be knocked over backwards by Mr Running Numpty; he might have gone over the barrier and fallen an unspecified height as a consequence.

I think that had Lopez had a punishment such that he'd lost the white jersey, the eventual recipient of said jersey might've felt he'd not really won it. However what punishment they could dole out may have been limited by precedent or procedure, making (say) a fine alone a non-option, if they judged that he had committed a particular crime. I don't think it is a good precedent that Lopez behaved that way, but it is probably a worse thing for professional racing as a whole if running numpties are encouraged; as it is only a special type of nutter wouldn't be deterred by those events.

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mjr
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mjr » 4 Jun 2019, 11:05pm

Brucey wrote:possibly Mr Static Numpty saw that there was no way to get out of the way of Mr Running Numpty in time, in which case you would naturally brace for collision.

Possibly, but I don't think that's what I saw. Running numpty passes several others with space enough before the collision.
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby pjclinch » 5 Jun 2019, 8:17am

mjr wrote:
Brucey wrote:possibly Mr Static Numpty saw that there was no way to get out of the way of Mr Running Numpty in time, in which case you would naturally brace for collision.

Possibly, but I don't think that's what I saw. Running numpty passes several others with space enough before the collision.


I think we can probably assume RN was probably more interested in MAL than in where he was actually going, so how much space he was leaving/taking might be somewhat conditional on other factors than how many folk he'd already got by.

Bottom line is, I think, it really helps if the fans aren't dicks.
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jun 2019, 8:46am

pjclinch wrote: ......Bottom line is, I think, it really helps if the fans aren't dicks.

Quite!
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mattheus
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mattheus » 5 Jun 2019, 9:00am

reohn2 wrote:
pjclinch wrote: ......Bottom line is, I think, it really helps if the fans aren't dicks.

Quite!


Amen!

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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mattheus » 5 Jun 2019, 9:53am

So what about Carapaz??

I didn't see every stage where he made gains, but I got the feeeeeeling the other GC contenders underestimated him, and just focused on marking the "main" opposition.

Is that fair - or was he genuinely the strongest rider (helped a little by a strong team)?

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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby Brucey » 5 Jun 2019, 11:09am

I think that any first-time grand tour winner is likely to have been underestimated by the favourites. I think that Carapaz made chunks of time when the others couldn't (or wouldn't commit to) follow; on past form most DSs would have had Carapaz down as a stage winner perhaps but not a GC candidate; had he been in a weaker team it would have been more obvious if he was their GC candidate. I think if he was better known (which he will be from now on) he'd be more likely to be marked out and followed. Anyway it turned out that (helped by his team) he was strong enough to hang on to his lead.

He wasn't the strongest rider; if you lose that much time in the final time trial you can't be. He wouldn't have chosen to finish that close to Nibali either; any time the winning margin drops to about a minute or less then a puncture or a minor mechanical could derail you.

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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby reohn2 » 5 Jun 2019, 11:20am

IMO Brucey's right he was underestimated but the name Carapaz wont be forgotten in future :wink:
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby mjr » 5 Jun 2019, 12:42pm

Brucey wrote:He wasn't the strongest rider; if you lose that much time in the final time trial you can't be. He wouldn't have chosen to finish that close to Nibali either; any time the winning margin drops to about a minute or less then a puncture or a minor mechanical could derail you.

Depends how you define "strongest". Some very strong climbers just don't time-trial well.

Carapaz was helped by Nibali making a tactical error on stage 14 choosing to mark Roglič instead of chasing Carapaz, who started the stage just 13 seconds behind him in the overall. Carapaz took nearly 2 minutes out of him that day, then a few seconds more on stage 17, giving him enough buffer to cope with the final 10½ mile TT - but Carapaz had also ridden well on stage 13 to move him within striking distance of Nibali and Roglič and only moved up the GC from that day on, which makes him look like the strongest rider by some measures.
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Re: 2019 Giro -spoilers if you didn't see yesterday's coverage-

Postby Brucey » 8 Jun 2019, 3:47pm

it depends how the race is structured as to who is really 'strongest'. Had the final TT been (say) 20 miles instead of about ten, Nibali would probably have beaten the underestimated Caparaz in the GC. Good to see a new winner though; it always shakes things up a bit.

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