Worlds TT (spoilers)

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
mig
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by mig »

hey...who changed my thread title!!?? :lol:

i enjoyed the race and the commentary but obviously badly marred by such a terrible crash. heal well young lady and come back stronger.

i take it that the men's course uses the same corner? i'd hope that the padding arrangement is extended just in case.

love the world championships. there is just something about it.
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kylecycler
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by kylecycler »

Brucey wrote:Just watching the replay on the red button. Was it the commentator's curse? Boardman had just added a 'barring incidents' caveat to his commentary, and had also mentioned that the course was 'rather non-technical'. His immediate reaction was that the front tyre had a problem of some kind, and that there might have been a few spots of rain about too.

Looking at the replay she did look like she was going a bit quick into that turn, and the combination of a poor sight line and small slip may just have provoked the crash. It doesn't get any prettier when you see it again though; nightmare stuff.


I felt the same re-watching Annemiek van Vleuten's crash in Rio just recently - the Olympic Channel put the Rio road races back up on YouTube since the Olympics were postponed - not much less shocking after four years than it was then, and a miracle that she survived relatively unscathed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngcyn9c ... be&t=13427

Funnily enough (and thankfully it did turn out to be funny, although it was slightly upsetting to watch), on the second stage of last week's Giro Rosa, in the Eurosport commentary, Dani Rowe was busy waxing lyrical about Annemiek van Vleuten's style on the bike when this happened - the curse of the commentator (again!) (mind you, the clip has the Italian commentary, so you'll have to take my word for it!)...

https://twitter.com/AvVleuten/status/13 ... 4844305408

Annemiek can laugh at herself (although she did express the opinion that this particular gravel stage was inappropriate and downright dangerous - the gravel was far too rough and loose), and she said that at the time she could have sworn she was running alongside her bike but when she saw the video she could see she was barely able to walk! :)

She won that stage by almost two minutes but was brought down in a bunch pile-up towards the end of Stage 7 last Thursday; her wrist was fractured in the crash and she had to abandon the Giro when in the Maglia Rosa. Latest word is, the operation on Saturday took just half an hour, with only a local anaesthetic. A metal plate was inserted to strengthen the wrist and she was surprised when doctors suggested she could possibly defend the rainbow jersey she won in Yorkshire if she wore a brace. She gave up her Time Trial entry to Ellen van Dijk, who took bronze yesterday; she's practised the road course and should decide today, with doctors' advice, whether to race tomorrow.

This is the crash which caused that injury, set off by, if you look very closely, a pothole in the road just beyond the gated opening where the crash started to happen - Soraya Paladin, on the front, had to alter course slightly to the right to avoid it which caused a chain reaction - nobody's fault, just racing, Italian roads and a rushed reschedule due to the virus which caused the routes (perhaps) not to be properly vetted. Van Vleuten is in the Maglia Rosa with the black helmet and the yellow shoes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywg9reJ ... .be&t=2596

Sadly, Van Vleuten's Mitchelton Scott team mate Amanda Spratt, who took bronze last year in Harrogate and silver in Innsbruck the year before (where Annemiek fractured her shin in a fall with over 90 Km still to go and still somehow finished seventh!), was badly beaten up in the Giro crash (she landed on the pavement, just in front of Annemiek), and won't be well enough to race in the Australian jersey tomorrow.
Last edited by kylecycler on 25 Sep 2020, 8:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kylecycler
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by kylecycler »

Further to the above, it's just been confirmed that tomorrow Annemiek van Vleuten will defend the title she won last year in Yorkshire, thanks to her (somewhat unconventional!) team... :D

Image

https://twitter.com/AvVleuten/status/13 ... 2227835904
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Redvee
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by Redvee »

Chloe, herself, posted an image of her leg on her Twitter feed. The injury isn't nice to look at.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
Listening to the live men's road race.
Very interesting discussions going on with Boardman and female presenter, Technical bike stuff :)
Edited from start of race up to 188K, Roschelle and Boardman talk about the inner workings of racing et cetera et cetera.
An interesting one on magpies not sure I look at magpies that way.

edited, Specifically about 198K to 188k talk about Cycle technical staff Tyres aerodynamics such et cetera.
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kylecycler
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by kylecycler »

Guess what, the green padded barriers were extended for the men's TT the following day - the way they should have been in the first place. Scandalous.

Thursday - Chloe Dygert losing control in the Women's TT
thursday.jpg


Friday - Wout van Aert (I think) in the Men's TT - the padding now extends beyond where Chloe went along and over the barrier.
friday.jpg


friday2.jpg


Then again, when Chloe crashed, if the barriers had been where they should have been they could have snagged the bike, which could have caused its own problems, but she would have had a better chance of avoiding injury and not had her thigh ripped open so horribly by the armco barrier. She would still most likely have gone over the barrier, but might well have been able to escape with cuts and bruises and recover to give the rest a race in the Women's Road Race the way she did last year in Yorkshire.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by NATURAL ANKLING »

Hi,
To be honest parts of the commentary were a bit more interesting than the overall men's road race.
I wouldn't begrudge the winner of the race simply because they saw an opportunity and went for it.
I just think the rest of them put on a pretty poor show come the end!
Not unlike some of the other championship races I have watched.
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Postboxer
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by Postboxer »

It really annoys me when that happens, the chasing group all stop to look at each other, happened in the women's too. No-one else cares who comes second, try to win! Alaphilippe is a great rider but looking at the quality of the chasing pack, they should have been able to catch him.

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thirdcrank
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by thirdcrank »

One thing which surprised me about the BBC commentary for the men's road race was Chris Boardman suggesting a couple of times that the timing of the gap behind Alaphilippe was wrong when simply counting the time between leader and chasers passing markers like kilometre banners confirmed the timing.

A worthy winner, I thought, displaying the panache which makes a race worth watching.

Towards the end of the TdeF there was a piece in the Daily Telegraph heavy with innuendo connecting Slovenian riders with mechanical doping. The unexplained bike change towards the end of the men's race followed by a lone break had me wondering but it came to nothing.
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Re: TT Bike Handling (Chloe Dygert)

Post by Brucey »

kylecycler wrote:Guess what, the green padded barriers were extended for the men's TT the following day - the way they should have been in the first place. Scandalous...


interestingly CB initially said he thought the crash barriers were too short, but by the following day he had changed his mind, claiming that Dygert had (and I paraphrase) 'unexpectedly lost control after the apex of the bend' and that this would be why the crash barriers didn't work for her. Yeah, and that'll be why they extended them for the men's race then... :roll:

The barriers as they were originally placed might help those who made little or no attempt at all to turn, and no-one else. I wonder if CB is reluctant to criticise the UCI; maybe he is angling for a job with them or something..?

cheers
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thirdcrank
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by thirdcrank »

I thought - perhaps wrongly - that the barriers at that point of the course were permanent and partially covered with the usual heavy padding. Accepting that events showed the padding to be inadequate, I don't see it as some sort of sexist discrimination to rectify it before the men's event.
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TrevA
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by TrevA »

If you watch the video of Chloe’s crash closely, she never comes off her tribars, so wouldn’t have braked at all. I think she just went into the corner too fast and the front wheel lost grip. It’s similar to a motorcycle tank slapper.
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mattheus
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: Accepting that events showed the padding to be inadequate, I don't see it as some sort of sexist discrimination to rectify it before the men's event.

Exactly.
Such accusations are twaddle.
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kylecycler
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by kylecycler »

thirdcrank wrote:I thought - perhaps wrongly - that the barriers at that point of the course were permanent and partially covered with the usual heavy padding. Accepting that events showed the padding to be inadequate, I don't see it as some sort of sexist discrimination to rectify it before the men's event.

mattheus wrote:Exactly.
Such accusations are twaddle.

Eh? I don't think anyone is suggesting that it was anything to do with sexist discrimination - what are you on about?! :wink:

Events didn't have to show the padding to be inadequate, though - I know it's easy to be wise after the event, but it should have been obvious to whoever was responsible for safety on the course (except it wasn't) that it was inadequate on the Thursday and should have been the way it was on the Friday - it really wasn't that hard - they only had to consider the possible trajectory.

Or, to be fair, there might be another explanation. The entire event was (re-)staged in just 22 days - it was meant to have been held in Switzerland but the virus scuppered that - you can read the story here - I believe the road sections of the course were even re-surfaced:

On September 2nd, the UCI announced that the Elite World Championships would take place in Imola, Italy. It was only one day before this public announcement that Marco Pavarini, the President of the Organising Committee of Imola 2020, learned the news. A mere 22 days later the first rider rolled off the start ramp in the Individual Time Trial. It was quite the journey to get a World Championships happening in a year when no racing was a very real prospect.

https://cyclingtips.com/2020/09/what-is ... e-22-days/

So the most likely explanation/excuse was that, because it was unavoidably a 'rush job', by the time of the Women's TT there were still loose ends. Given a little more time, even a day, the course might - certainly should, possibly would - have been further re-inspected (and it's the re-inspection of the re-inspection that tends to count) and that discrepancy resolved.

About sexist discrimination, though (if only because you folks mentioned it!): The Giro Rosa - the women's Giro d'Italia - has been excluded from the Women's World Tour calendar next year for reasons effectively related to that. To be fair to the organizers, they arguably did the best they could to even put the race on this year, given the circumstances, but everything for the women tends to be sketchier/shoddier than for the men (which wasn't relevant at the World Championships, of course, since all WC races are held at the same venue) because there's less/no money, hence the crash-inducing potholes / safety issues and backpain-inducing hotel beds.

Lizzie Banks recorded a 'Giro Rosa Diary' for Richard Moore's Podcast Feminin and outlined the highs and lows. She's a character - a pure one-off (she rode Omloop Het Nieuwsblad this year in her winter woolies and got laughed at but was the only one to stay warm!) - but talks a lot of sense and it's entertaining for anyone who is interested and has the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo-98d9 ... .be&t=2499

This is the Giro stage "Leezee Banks-a", as the Italian commentator calls her, won (at 170 Km, I think it was the longest women's stage ever run, but I've set the video to start on the climb to the finish).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4QPPo ... .be&t=2472

(If you watch the clip closely, @ 45:19 you'll see a black cat crossing the road behind Annemiek van Vleuten (but in front of Elisa Longo Borghini). Given subsequent events I'm still scratching my head as to what it meant.)

Also, can't not post this - the crazy climb to Assisi at the end of the previous stage - stewards wearing hi-viz vests with COVID-19 masks to catch the riders after they crossed the line in case they couldn't clip out - the slow-mo replays are epic. Lotte Kopecky didn't have anyone to catch her, 'stalled', managed to clip out ok but then just parked herself in the middle of the road, collapsed over the bike, seemingly oblivious to the riders picking their way around her until she got helped away. And although Mavi Garcia (reigning Spanish Road & TT Champion) has a dazzling smile, she also has the best 'pain face' in all of cycling!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBk-tvt ... .be&t=2590

There's something more heroic about women's pro cycling than men's, but that's probably a sexist thing to say.

(Not suggesting women don't know how to clip out, btw - now, that really would be sexist - but there have been worse injuries caused by that than high speed crashes since at low speeds there's so little time - an American male pro cyclist (can't remember who but it was a couple of years ago) suffered a far, far worse injury after he retired than in the multiple crashes in his career when he was out with his young son, just messing around, and didn't unclip soon enough at low speed - his knee was shattered. Also, Annemiek van Vleuten suffered an injury like that in a low-speed fall in the 2018 Worlds Road Race, although - being AvV - she still managed to ride the last 90-odd kilometres and finish seventh with a fractured shin!)

P.S. Sorry for derailing the thread further (no pun intended).
mattheus
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Re: Worlds TT (spoilers)

Post by mattheus »

kylecycler wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:I thought - perhaps wrongly - that the barriers at that point of the course were permanent and partially covered with the usual heavy padding. Accepting that events showed the padding to be inadequate, I don't see it as some sort of sexist discrimination to rectify it before the men's event.

mattheus wrote:Exactly.
Such accusations are twaddle.

Eh? I don't think anyone is suggesting that it was anything to do with sexist discrimination - what are you on about?! :wink:

Oh they are out there. Bet me a tenner and I will find you some!

(Thanks for the youtube links, will try to watch later.)
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