Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
thelawnet
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Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by thelawnet »

It seems that Team Sky's 'marginal gains' might be of the chemical kind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/54503276

> In claims that will also add to the intrigue surrounding the practices of the highly successful British Cycling and Team Sky (now Ineos), Freeman also says the unregulated availability of prescription-only medicines was "considered a marginal gain by management".

>Dr Freeman has been accused by the General Medical Council (GMC) of ordering banned testosterone to the National Cycling Centre in 2011 "knowing or believing" it was intended to boost an athlete's performance.

> He has admitted 18 of 22 charges against him, which include initially lying to try to cover up the order and to a UK Anti-Doping (Ukad) investigation.

> But Dr Freeman denies the key accusation, saying he was bullied into ordering the drug by Sutton to treat his erectile dysfunction.>

> Sutton has denied those claims, insisting the doctor is lying.

Apparently we are supposed to believe that the testogel was for a malfunctioning male member, not for doping, as used by Lance Armstrong, Floyd Landis and others. This after previously getting a fake email sent out which said it had been sent in error (now said to be a lie to cover up the impotence).

I think there is a term for this, basically you come up with something as embarrassing as possible to try and make out that nobody would lie about such things.

The, er, multiple incidents of laptops being destroyed/stolen to keep them safe from 'Indian hackers', and so on, is perfectly innocent too.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... ver-bloods

There is a clear trend in sport of who can sign up the dodgiest doctor will win. See Mo Farah's various associates, for example.

I suppose it's all part of the gains, and likely to be more effective than your latest aero bike, or electronic gear shifters.
thelawnet
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by thelawnet »

I take it he is a doctor of philosophy, rather than a medical doctor?

Lol.
Postboxer
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by Postboxer »

Found guilty by a medical tribunal of ordering the patches for a rider.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/56367117
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mjr
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by mjr »

Postboxer wrote:Found guilty by a medical tribunal of ordering the patches for a rider.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/56367117

So, obvious question: which rider?
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Mike Sales
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by Mike Sales »

mjr wrote:So, obvious question: which rider?


Say it ain't so, Joe.
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
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simonineaston
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by simonineaston »

So, I've had a good think about this and I've conluded that people will cheat if they think they can get away with it.
S
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djnotts
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by djnotts »

Mike Sales wrote:
mjr wrote:So, obvious question: which rider?


Say it ain't so, Joe.


Which RIDER? A Team sport surely? Clear blue sky (sic) thinking for British Cycling. I always assumed TS and BC pretty much one entity.

Hands up those who thought that any major Tour riders of last 100 years clean ......
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by Mike Sales »

Remaining unanswered questions.

Frustratingly there were other interesting lines of inquiry that were not pursued. O’Rourke, for instance, revealed she had written to Damian Collins MP – the author of a damning digital, culture, media and sport select committee report into British Cycling and Team Sky – because she had “been given to believe he received a quantity of information which did not get published which related to Mr Sutton”.

She also claimed the Daily Mail had a “witness statement or affidavit” signed by Sutton. That was held in the managing editor of the newspaper’s safe as “an insurance policy against any potential claims for defamation by Sir Bradley Wiggins, Freeman or Sir Dave Brailsford”. But again, we got no further.


Mary Rourke is Freeman's QC.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/mar/12/marginal-or-medical-gains-freeman-verdict-leaves-questions-unanswered
It's the same the whole world over
It's the poor what gets the blame
It's the rich what gets the pleasure
Isn't it a blooming shame?
slowster
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by slowster »

From https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/46870091:

In pre-hearing information published by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service, a regulatory committee independent from the GMC, it is claimed Freeman's "motive for his actions, in respect of the untrue statements and communications with Fit4Sport Limited, were to conceal his motive for placing the order."
...
Dr Steve Peters, the Team Sky psychiatrist and former head of medicine at British Cycling, told the newspaper that Freeman told him the order "had never been placed and so must have been sent in error."

Peters claimed that Freeman had contacted the supplier and confirmed this and that he subsequently asked Freeman to request written confirmation, which he saw and was therefore satisfied it was "an administrative error".

The supplier was apparently a company which specialised in providing medical products for the sports market, not just a general supplier of drugs to medical practicioners. What reason would they have for ordering, stocking and supplying testogel?

That particular purchase of testogel was almost certainly not a one-off. If UKAD and/or the Parliamentary committee was to get a clearer indication of the extent of the problem, they should investigate the purchases and sales of banned drugs by Fit4Sport

UKAD probably has no direct legal power to demand access to Fit4Sport's records in order to see what other orders they have fulfilled for testogel and other banned drugs, but the MHRA and the Parliamentry committee before which Brailsford and others testified re the jiffy bag might have powers to demand those records.

I suspect UKAD could sanction Fit4Sport and its directors under the WADA code, if they refused to assist UKAD with its enquiries. Dr Michele Ferrari, who was the doctor behind so much of the doping in professional cycling, was banned from involvement in any IOC sport as part of the sanctions against Lance Armstrong and those who assisted him. That made it an offence under the WADA code for any athlete or anyone else involved in an IOC sport to have dealings with Ferrari. A similar ruling for Fit4Sport and its directors on the grounds of failure to assist with a UKAD investigation would effectively close the business. Doubtless any such ruling would be contested in court, but the threat might be enough to persuade Fit4Sport to cooperate, especially if the supply of banned products was only a minor sideline to the business.
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by djnotts »

Is not the real problem that a purely commercial interest in effect merged with a sport governing body that was focused only on elite success, as of course was/is Sports England (or whatever its current guise).
The disparity in funding according to numbers of potential "medals" is a disgrace.
Olympic cycling for historical reasons has many more medals on offer per £ invested than most other sports and medals the only measure which counts, not the value to society as a whole.
Need a long spoon to dope, sorry sup, with Sky...
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TrevA
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by TrevA »

The case seems to boil down to whether you are inclined to believe Freeman or Sutton. The tribunal found Sutton to be a credible witness, but given his conduct during the Jess Varnish affair, I wouldn’t be so sure.

There are several other inaccuracies too. He only lost 1 laptop, which was the one stolen in Greece in 2014. 2 other laptops were given to UKAD and have not been returned. One that was returned, after they completed their investigations has since been disposed of, but this was AFTER investigations had been completed. How many people hang on to their old, obsolete laptops forever and ever?

Also, remember the verdict was “ on the balance of probabilities” rather than “beyond all reasonable doubt”.

A bit like the Meghan interview, the verdict and subsequent press coverage about doping, point the finger at everyone, but name no-one.

The BBC in particular are keen to make the most of every doping related cycling story they can find. Even when some Jonny Foreigner, who most people have never heard of, tests positive, the BBC will report it.

Fabian Puerta: Colombian cyclist given four-year doping ban https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/55341060

Edited for spelling.
Last edited by TrevA on 14 Mar 2021, 7:58pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by Bonefishblues »

TrevA wrote:The case seems to boil down to whether you are inclined to believe Freeman or Sutton. The tribunal found Sutton to be a credible witness, but given his conduct during the Jess Varnish affair, I wouldn’t be so sure.


What are you thinking about that made SS a suspect witness?

We also had a qualified medical practitioner specialising in sporting medicine claiming not to know that testosterone could enhance performance :shock:

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone comes out of this anything other than tarnished.
thelawnet
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Re: Dr. Dick Freeman and the cock and bull story about testogel patches

Post by thelawnet »

Dr. Dick apparently wanted the monthly blood results of UK Anti-Doping shared with him at British Cycling, so that the Olympic riders (in 2016) could be given time to come up with a legitimate explanation for their cheating in the case where blood profiles were inconsistent with normal endogenous hormones
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/56603585

This was rejected, but it does like he was quite smart in trying to find ways to cover up their cheating
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