Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
mattheus
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by mattheus »

TrevA wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:02pm
mattheus wrote: 6 May 2021, 3:16pm
rareposter wrote: 6 May 2021, 1:42pm A Regional A race has the potential to include a 2nd Cat who's only just dropped down from 1st the previous year and a 4th Cat who bought his/her bike and racing licence the previous week. It's the mix of ability that does it rather than "inexperience".
I have NO experience of racing in bunches larger than 6, so forgive my ignorance! But:

how does that manifest itself? Surely the faster riders can just ride away if they're sooo much better? Meanwhile, if they're riding within themselves waiting for the key moment, they should have more mental energy available to stay safe.

I think!
That’s not how road racing works. If you went blasting off at the start, then everyone would just sit on your wheel, being towed along. Remember, you use 30% less energy when sitting behind another rider. You really need a hill to sort out the wheat from the chaff, but even then it doesn’t always mean that a breakaway will stay away to the end. A bunch, sharing the work, can ride much faster than an individual or a small group, by sharing the pace making. So races on a flattish circuit will often end in a bunch sprint, where many of these crashes happen, as riders throw caution to the wind and try to secure a top 10 placing.

Experienced and more able riders know to stay within the first 10 riders in a field of sixty, to avoid crashes which often happen further back. This also means you’ve more chance of getting in any breaks that do happen.
That doesn't answer the question one bit.

(I'm sure you had good intentions, but there was no need for the Racing for Dummies lesson :-) Even Ned Boulting probably worked that stuff out in his 1st season around bike racing!)
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Bonefishblues »

mattheus wrote: 7 May 2021, 1:11pm
TrevA wrote: 6 May 2021, 10:02pm
mattheus wrote: 6 May 2021, 3:16pm
I have NO experience of racing in bunches larger than 6, so forgive my ignorance! But:

how does that manifest itself? Surely the faster riders can just ride away if they're sooo much better? Meanwhile, if they're riding within themselves waiting for the key moment, they should have more mental energy available to stay safe.

I think!
That’s not how road racing works. If you went blasting off at the start, then everyone would just sit on your wheel, being towed along. Remember, you use 30% less energy when sitting behind another rider. You really need a hill to sort out the wheat from the chaff, but even then it doesn’t always mean that a breakaway will stay away to the end. A bunch, sharing the work, can ride much faster than an individual or a small group, by sharing the pace making. So races on a flattish circuit will often end in a bunch sprint, where many of these crashes happen, as riders throw caution to the wind and try to secure a top 10 placing.

Experienced and more able riders know to stay within the first 10 riders in a field of sixty, to avoid crashes which often happen further back. This also means you’ve more chance of getting in any breaks that do happen.
That doesn't answer the question one bit.

(I'm sure you had good intentions, but there was no need for the Racing for Dummies lesson :-) Even Ned Boulting probably worked that stuff out in his 1st season around bike racing!)
It seems to answer both points you made - why faster riders can't simply ride away, and also that they stay towards the front of the bunch in order to improve their chances of not being caught up in an incident.
mattheus
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by mattheus »

The thread is about crashes - I queried the post that blamed crashes on mix of ability.

If no-one can answer that, then I probably have my answer ...
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foxyrider
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by foxyrider »

mattheus wrote: 7 May 2021, 2:27pm The thread is about crashes - I queried the post that blamed crashes on mix of ability.

If no-one can answer that, then I probably have my answer ...
Don't think it does.

One problem is that often, less experienced or maybe just rusty riders can get a bit over enthusiastic and quite tenacious (not just in actual races, i've seen this in sportives too). The more experienced/'better' riders may try to distance themselves from danger but an over enthusiastic newbie may tag onto such a move - the other riders may not be aware of his/her lack of experience - and it could turn out okay but a presumed level of competence could turn into swearing and road rash. As is so often the case in these sort of situations, it isn't always the inexperienced rider who suffers.

This happens at all levels of course, there is often a spate of early season crashes when riders who've been training on their own or maybe with a dozen team mates are thrust into a field of 100+ where everyone else is in the same boat, throw in a couple of 'new' riders.....

Maybe the question should be, 'are there fewer crashes later in the season?'
Convention? what's that then?
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TrevA
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by TrevA »

I’ve ridden probably 100 road races in my racing career and watched my son race in many more. In my experience, when there is a wide mix of abilities, the better riders will get together and raise the pace at the start of the race to try and reduce the numbers. In 4th cat only races, this doesn’t happen to the same extent, there’s lots of jumping around - everyone sprints for a kilometre or so, then the pace slows again but there’s not a sustained high pace like there would be in a 2/3/4 race. This raising of the pace at the start does work to an extent. The complete novice will find themselves spat out of the back of the main group. However, you will have riders who are very fit through doing turbo training, but are not necessarily the best bike handlers, who can hang on to this sustained pace.

Many crashes happen towards the end of the race, when the Adrenalin is pumping and a red mist descends. Riders will take risks near the finish that they wouldn’t at other points in the race. Again here, experience plays a part. Riders who have got enough points to get to 2nd cat, know how to sprint in a big bunch. Newbies who’ve managed to make it that far may not. 4th cat only races are perhaps more likely to end in a big bunch sprint, where a mix of skill levels can lead to an increased risk of a crash.

This is based on my own experience, others may have different experiences, so YMMV.
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Anthony.R.Brown
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Anthony.R.Brown »

If ever you needed more proof of just how many Crashes there are today ? then take a look at the Tour De France that has just started! :(

Something must be wrong with today's riders! ?




A.R.B :)
DaveReading
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by DaveReading »

Anthony.R.Brown wrote: 26 Jun 2021, 4:08pm If ever you needed more proof of just how many Crashes there are today ? then take a look at the Tour De France that has just started! :(

Something must be wrong with today's riders! ?




A.R.B :)
I think you mean something must be wrong with today's spectators ...
merseymouth
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by merseymouth »

Well, the first chute was definitely caused by a silly woman at the roadside, facing the wrong way, with a large cardboard sign intruding into the course. She should be prosecuted for endangerment, totally asinine!
The second stack up may well have been caused by "Rider Error", but as the peleton was trying recover its original shape and composition from the first one it is partly understandable.
But roadside spectators must learn to watch the action, not try to try for their 15 seconds of fame :( .
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by VinceLedge »

I still think that the original title of the thread is still valid, there seems to be no data to show whether crashes are more or less frequent now than at some unspecified point in the past!
Because of the increased coverage of bike racing on various media it may just be that we see more crashes than we used to.
My other thought is that, if crashes are more frequent, the increased road 'furniture' mainly there to reduce vehicle speed is more of a hazard for group racing.
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Anthony.R.Brown
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Anthony.R.Brown »

The main difference with today's Cyclists & Motorists is mentality! everyone today thinks they are something special,and that they are the centre of attention and that everyone is looking at them :( well they need to get off their high stools and look around sometimes at what is really happening,and this is where the main difference comes in,in the past Cyclists & Motorists looked ahead and around themselves for any problems that might occur and tried their best to avoid the situations,nowadays it is the opposite Cyclists & Motorists think everyone is looking at what they are doing and expect them to avoid their mistakes! :(
Jdsk
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Jdsk »

VinceLedge wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 8:39am... there seems to be no data to show whether crashes are more or less frequent now than at some unspecified point in the past!
Golden Agery flourishes where the data are sparse.

Jonathan
VinceLedge
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by VinceLedge »

[/quote]
Golden Agery flourishes where the data are sparse.

Jonathan
[/quote]

Brilliant , exactly!
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Anthony.R.Brown
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Anthony.R.Brown »

To show just how bad motorists have got in recent years...

Cyclist fatalities on British roads rose by 40% in 2020, says DfT

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... gures-show
Jdsk
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Jdsk »

Discussed here... the headline might have been misleading:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146545

Jonathan
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Anthony.R.Brown
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Re: Why Are There So Many Crashes Now! In Road Racing ?

Post by Anthony.R.Brown »

Jdsk wrote: 27 Jun 2021, 2:14pm Discussed here... the headline might have been misleading:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146545

Jonathan
It's a reference point related to "The main difference with today's Cyclists & Motorists is mentality!"
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