Olympics! (spoilers)

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
Ontherivet77
Posts: 332
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Olympics!

Post by Ontherivet77 »

mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:52am
Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:38am
TrevA wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 9:30am If Deignan had attacked, the Dutch would have just sat on her.
Most likely, but what did she achieve by doing nothing?
A better chance of a medal, even though it still came to nothing. She would not have caught a prepared time trialist alone.
Van Vleuten attacked twice and got a silver medal so I beg to differ. Fortune favours the brave and all that.
Ontherivet77
Posts: 332
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by Ontherivet77 »

foxyrider wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:30pm Maybe Tom would've been a better pick than his Ineos team mates for the road race! :lol:

Great performance and a very convincing result
Pidcock definitely looks quality. Thought he was unlucky at the Amstel Gold Race, but I have yet to see the actual photo used by the judges.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Olympics!

Post by mjr »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:34pm
mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:52am
Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:38am

Most likely, but what did she achieve by doing nothing?
A better chance of a medal, even though it still came to nothing. She would not have caught a prepared time trialist alone.
Van Vleuten attacked twice and got a silver medal so I beg to differ. Fortune favours the brave and all that.
Riders are not clones and Deignan is not Van Vleuten, so I am confident you are mistaken. Also, Deignan was not racing for silver (she already has one), unlike Van Vleuten.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
Ontherivet77
Posts: 332
Joined: 3 Jun 2009, 3:20pm
Location: Lancashire

Re: Olympics!

Post by Ontherivet77 »

mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:45pm
Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:34pm
mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:52am

A better chance of a medal, even though it still came to nothing. She would not have caught a prepared time trialist alone.
Van Vleuten attacked twice and got a silver medal so I beg to differ. Fortune favours the brave and all that.
Riders are not clones and Deignan is not Van Vleuten, so I am confident you are mistaken. Also, Deignan was not racing for silver (she already has one), unlike Van Vleuten.
That makes no sense at all a silver or bronze is always preferable to nothing.
The winner of the race is not in Van Vleuten's class but she attacked from the get go and won.
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Olympics!

Post by mjr »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 1:06pm
mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:45pm Also, Deignan was not racing for silver (she already has one), unlike Van Vleuten.
That makes no sense at all a silver or bronze is always preferable to nothing.
Is it? In time, history will forget that Deignan was there and snookered, but it will always remember Van Vleuten's embarrassing error.
The winner of the race is not in Van Vleuten's class but she attacked from the get go and won.
On that we do agree: the winner can count and is not in the remedial maths class.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
rjb
Posts: 7200
Joined: 11 Jan 2007, 10:25am
Location: Somerset (originally 60/70's Plymouth)

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by rjb »

foxyrider wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:30pm Maybe Tom would've been a better pick than his Ineos team mates for the road race! :lol:

Great performance and a very convincing result
I believe his ineos team mate won the gold medal in the road race.

So who will have the bragging rights in the ineos team. :roll:
At the last count:- Peugeot 531 pro, Dawes Discovery Tandem, Dawes Kingpin X3, Raleigh 20 stowaway, 1965 Moulton deluxe, Falcon K2 MTB dropped bar tourer, Rudge Bi frame folder, Longstaff trike conversion on a Giant XTC 840 :D
Maillot Rouge
Posts: 175
Joined: 12 Nov 2020, 9:24pm

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by Maillot Rouge »

Is it Cavendish who said
“You might as well finish last as come 2nd”?
Few remember 2nd or 3rd placers after a few years.
User avatar
TrevA
Posts: 3551
Joined: 1 Jun 2007, 9:12pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by TrevA »

In many sports, an Olympic Gold is the pinnacle of the sport. Not so in men’s road cycling. I think the World Champs has more kudos, a Grand Tour even more. I can remember Tour winners going back to the 70’s, but I can’t remember who won the 2008 Men’s Olympic Road Race (obviously Nicole won the womens). I can only remember 2012’s winner because of his infamy (convicted ex-doper). So I think Bernal trumps both Carapaz and Pidcock for Ineos.
Sherwood CC and Notts CTC.
A cart horse trapped in the body of a man.
http://www.jogler2009.blogspot.com
Postboxer
Posts: 1929
Joined: 24 Jul 2013, 5:19pm

Re: Olympics!

Post by Postboxer »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:34pm
mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:52am
Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 11:38am

Most likely, but what did she achieve by doing nothing?
A better chance of a medal, even though it still came to nothing. She would not have caught a prepared time trialist alone.
Van Vleuten attacked twice and got a silver medal so I beg to differ. Fortune favours the brave and all that.
But the Dutch team were unlikely to chase one of their own riders.
User avatar
kylecycler
Posts: 1378
Joined: 12 Aug 2013, 4:09pm
Location: Kyle, Ayrshire

Re: Olympics!

Post by kylecycler »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 9:06am I don't understand why if Vos knew there was someone up the road that she didn't bother to tell Van Vleuten and save her the embarrassment at the end. TBH I thought she was celebrating silver at first it's only when I saw her face a couple of minutes later I realised she hadn't known.
We'll be getting the full story as the days go by, but Van Vleuten explained the confusion in a post-race interview:
'It went wrong when we were told that the Polish rider Anna Plichta was alone in front, so when we overtook her we thought we had overtaken everyone. Then I rode away solo, after which the group with Vos in it was shown a sign that stated how far they were behind Kiesenhofer. That's why she already knew when we crossed the finish line, but because we rode without earphones, nobody could tell me."
There were always a couple of factions in the Dutch team, inevitably. Demi Vollering is Anna van der Breggen's protégé at SD Worx, their trade team, while Marianne Vos is Annemiek van Vleuten's best friend in cycling - goes away back to their days at Nederland Bloeit in 2010. Van der Breggen and Van Vleuten are fierce rivals and although they're perfectly civil to each other and, by and large, when they wear the orange jersey they race for their country, they're not close friends. So there's no question that if Vos had known she would have told Van Vleuten, but by the time she did, she couldn't.

There was a story told by Annemiek van Vleuten in a Shimano interview last year when she was at home. After Annemiek's crash at Rio, Marianne Vos spent a lot of time with her to help her to reconcile what happened and get over it psychologically, even though she has no recollection of the crash - she was unconscious for the four minutes it took the paramedics to reach her. Here it is for anyone who never saw it or who has forgotten - it doesn't get any better with the passage of time, although at least you know now that she survived - at the time I feared she'd broken her neck and died, as did her poor mum back home, watching the race on TV, and, I recall, our Brucey, among countless others:

https://youtu.be/Ngcyn9coRO8?t=13427

Anyway, the Shimano interviewer was asking Annemiek questions submitted by other folk and one was, what was her favourite quote? At first she said she didn't have one, then, *light bulb*, she looked away to her right (she was sitting at her laptop in her living room) and appeared to read something off the wall: "Success is not final, failure is not fatal, it is the courage to continue that counts." It's attributed to Churchill although there's no record of him ever having said it, but Annemiek said it was given to her by Marianne Vos after Rio - a photo of her going up the last climb with the quote underneath. She says what she took away from Rio was that she'd proved to herself and everyone else that she could be the best climber - she was never known as a climber - and when you consider how her career has gone since - her rainbow jersey in Yorkshire and all the other wins - nothing could have been more appropriate.

https://www.facebook.com/shimanoroad/vi ... ideos_card

Still, I guess she'll be needing that quote again now.
User avatar
andrew_s
Posts: 5795
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 9:29pm
Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by andrew_s »

Ontherivet77 wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 12:38pm Pidcock definitely looks quality. Thought he was unlucky at the Amstel Gold Race, but I have yet to see the actual photo used by the judges.
I did see it (somewhere, in the cyclingnews forum, probably) - about 5 - 10 mm in it, so it was all on the bike throw.
Wout has longer arms than Tom, which could be what the difference was, rather than timing or anything.

sizbut wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 8:22pmKudos too to the Austrian cycling federation - they could have chosen from 3 Austrian women who do ride on pro teams. Whatever the reasons they made a good choice.
I believe they held a selection race on a course as simliar to Tokyo as was readily available, which Kiesenhofer won handsomely.
User avatar
kylecycler
Posts: 1378
Joined: 12 Aug 2013, 4:09pm
Location: Kyle, Ayrshire

Re: Olympics! (spoilers)

Post by kylecycler »

Harking back to Richard Carapaz's Gold on Saturday, this is nice film about his origins in Ecuador - seriously worth watching.



Seems a very likeable, good-natured, genuine character - quite something to go all the way from there to Olympic Gold (and his other wins).

Found it quite incongruous that he was joking about thinking he'd caught the Loch Ness Monster in the lake - Nessie's famous all over the world! :)
User avatar
mjr
Posts: 20308
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: Olympics!

Post by mjr »

kylecycler wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 3:09pm We'll be getting the full story as the days go by, but Van Vleuten explained the confusion in a post-race interview:
'It went wrong when we were told that the Polish rider Anna Plichta was alone in front, so when we overtook her we thought we had overtaken everyone. [...]."
Who told who that? Someone told the Dutch team, I guess, as Longo Borghini claims to have known one was still away.

And why didn't they realise something was wrong with the info when they caught Plichta and Shapira together?
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.
User avatar
kylecycler
Posts: 1378
Joined: 12 Aug 2013, 4:09pm
Location: Kyle, Ayrshire

Re: Olympics!

Post by kylecycler »

mjr wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 7:50pm
kylecycler wrote: 26 Jul 2021, 3:09pm We'll be getting the full story as the days go by, but Van Vleuten explained the confusion in a post-race interview:
'It went wrong when we were told that the Polish rider Anna Plichta was alone in front, so when we overtook her we thought we had overtaken everyone. [...]."
Who told who that? Someone told the Dutch team, I guess, as Longo Borghini claims to have known one was still away.

And why didn't they realise something was wrong with the info when they caught Plichta and Shapira together?
I think it was the Dutch DS in the team car, last time one of the Dutchies talked to her, and obviously no-one could go back to the car in the later stages and the car couldn't get up to them. But apparently she wasn't getting enough information either; seems we knew far more watching the race back here than some of the teams and riders did, which surely isn't right, however you look at it. I guess they might have been confused when they saw Plichta and Shapira together but they were confused already.

This article in Cycling Tips tries to get to the bottom of it but it was just all a shambles - confusion reigned.

https://cyclingtips.com/2021/07/trying- ... road-race/

The Dutch aren't making excuses, they just genuinely didn't know - maybe they should have, but they didn't - once they passed Plichta they thought they'd caught everyone, even if they still weren't quite sure. By that time the game was a bogey because I don't think they could have caught Kiesenhofer anyway, but if they'd been getting the right time gaps and known where she was they could have chased harder sooner. Or if they hadn't let the gap go out so far in the first place, of course...
User avatar
kylecycler
Posts: 1378
Joined: 12 Aug 2013, 4:09pm
Location: Kyle, Ayrshire

Re: Olympics!

Post by kylecycler »

mjr wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 6:15pm
sizbut wrote: 25 Jul 2021, 5:00pm As a non pro-team rider she may have also been a lot freer in setting her training schedule and targets - like mentally preparing for a super long distance solo. Bravo.
What little she did tweet suggests she trained for the high temperatures, even while still in Austria, plus she is a repeat time trial national champion, so she was completely the wrong rider to let go into a breakaway, as it turned out. I am a bit surprised no one in a team car researched her and warned some riders in the peloton over 5 hours, even without radios. Complacency about the usual doomed breakaway, perhaps?
Pretty much that - it would have taken someone in a team car to research her - she's that obscure (or was!). I just vaguely remembered checking her out after she finished third in the Tour de L'Ardeche last year and thinking it was an awful shame/loss that someone who was clearly so gifted had never, and most likely would never (same still applies, I think, even after yesterday) make a career out of pro cycling. And to be fair, very few of the top riders would even have been aware of her, and the strategists would hardly have considered her. Just Mavi Garcia, the Spanish national champion, who finished second in that tour last year, would have known her - she was the only one who raced L'Ardeche last year and was in yesterday's race.

Garcia, mind you, has a similar style to Kiesenhofer - she was a duathlete for years and only took up pro cycling at 31; she gets anxious in the peloton and consequently tends to take off up the road, as she did at Strade Bianche last year to great effect and almost won, until Van Vleuten eventually caught her then beat her up the last climb to Piazze del Campo in Sienna.

Lotte Kopecky, the Belgian rider who finished fourth yesterday, remembers Anna's ultra-brief sojourn with the Lotto-Soudal team of which Kopecky was also a member at the time, and knew she was the real deal, in spite of Anna's complete lack of results as a pro.

Marlen Reusser, the only Swiss rider in the race, who finished second in the WC Time Trial at Imola and will be a strong contender in Wednesday's TT, knew Anna was a strong time triallist and tried to warn the rest to take her seriously but she said no-one listened.
Post Reply