Paris Roubaix

Now we have something / quite-a-lot to discuss and celebrate.
Stevek76
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by Stevek76 »

What puzzles me is how the riders are able to keep up the obligatory wobbly voice 'uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh' when going over cobbles for that long...


:D
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mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

reohn2 wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 9:40am
mattheus wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 9:09am .........I don't think Roubaix is significantly worse for head injuries than other road races.
It's been 19 yrears since a wet PR,were a wet race more often I think that wouldn't be the case.Watching the crash which involve Diijk and the other riders there were a lot of heads hitting the deck and necks getting wrenched,horrifying to see.But such crashes are par for the course in a wet PR.
They are par for the course in dry tarmac road races. (a number of crashes in the '21 Mens Roubaix were on roundabouts!)

I don't have stats, but you may find more head injuries in a purely tarmac race as large bunches are more the norm. The crashes I saw in the Roubaix Femme were all grouplets of 1-5 riders.

The worse crash in recent years was the dry Tour of Poland finishing sprint :-/
mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

Stevek76 wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 9:54am What puzzles me is how the riders are able to keep up the obligatory wobbly voice 'uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh' when going over cobbles for that long...


:D
I really really hope you have a good audio clip of this.
reohn2
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by reohn2 »

mattheus wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 11:51am
reohn2 wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 9:40am
mattheus wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 9:09am .........I don't think Roubaix is significantly worse for head injuries than other road races.
It's been 19 yrears since a wet PR,were a wet race more often I think that wouldn't be the case.Watching the crash which involve Diijk and the other riders there were a lot of heads hitting the deck and necks getting wrenched,horrifying to see.But such crashes are par for the course in a wet PR.
They are par for the course in dry tarmac road races. (a number of crashes in the '21 Mens Roubaix were on roundabouts!)

I don't have stats, but you may find more head injuries in a purely tarmac race as large bunches are more the norm. The crashes I saw in the Roubaix Femme were all grouplets of 1-5 riders.
IMHO crashes on tarmac(excluding the really highspeed multi number involved)tend to mostly slide outs or touches of wheels(which can be OTT or rider dumped straight down ie upright one second down the next without warning)which usually don't invlove head injuries.
Wet PR crashes tend to to take the ride completely by surprise and bring them down without any time to react,a bit like a black ice fall.
The worse crash in recent years was the dry Tour of Poland finishing sprint :-/
Yes that was truly horrific.
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Stevek76
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by Stevek76 »

mattheus wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 11:51am
I really really hope you have a good audio clip of this.
I do not, and I would be unlikely to share it if I did. :lol:
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mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

reohn2 wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 12:54pm IMHO crashes on tarmac(excluding the really highspeed multi number involved)
It's the multiple-rider pile-ups that cause most of the serious injuries, and they are common-place in most bunch racing; so pelase don't exclude them from your analysis!

Meanwhile I don't see much difference between these two crashes:
tend to mostly slide outs or touches of wheels(which can be OTT or rider dumped straight down ie upright one second down the next without warning)which usually don't invlove head injuries.
Wet PR crashes tend to to take the ride completely by surprise and bring them down without any time to react,a bit like a black ice fall.
reohn2
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by reohn2 »

mattheus wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 1:27pm
reohn2 wrote: 5 Oct 2021, 12:54pm IMHO crashes on tarmac(excluding the really highspeed multi number involved)
It's the multiple-rider pile-ups that cause most of the serious injuries, and they are common-place in most bunch racing; so pelase don't exclude them from your analysis!
I wasn't,just trying to seperate them from other falls.
Meanwhile I don't see much difference between these two crashes:
tend to mostly slide outs or touches of wheels(which can be OTT or rider dumped straight down ie upright one second down the next without warning)which usually don't invlove head injuries.
Wet PR crashes tend to to take the ride completely by surprise and bring them down without any time to react,a bit like a black ice fall.
The point I was trying to make,perhaps badly,is that slide outs generally don't cause the same kind of injury unless the rider hit something solid such a conrete block,arco barrier or tree etc.
Whereas the slower 'dump down' PR,black ice,OTT tends to impact the rider harder.
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mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

Losing the front wheel mostly leads to hip injuries and collarbone breaks. It's actually quite a hard way to get a TBI. (I've had a few in CX races - my helmet has yet to touch the floor.)

A bunch crash at 35mph is what I'd fear as a pro. They are far more likely on a tarmac stage of the Tour, than on pavé. Yes, you see a lot of road rash from sliding along - but the chance of an over-the-bars or other complex crash is high, and you'll be moving at speed :(

There is also very little road furniture to hit on the cobbles. Your only problem is the cobbles themselves (and if you're lucky they'll be covered in soft mud). I rode into the side ditches twice on my one expedition - embarassing but painless!
thirdcrank
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by thirdcrank »

It's taken a few days to emerge, but here's the BBC's take on it. Before anybody tells me, I do know the BBC is hardly an authority on bike racing.

Blood on the bars: Lizzie Deignan's Paris-Roubaix win & a landmark for women's cycling

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/58805044
mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

thirdcrank wrote: 6 Oct 2021, 3:10pm It's taken a few days to emerge, but here's the BBC's take on it. Before anybody tells me, I do know the BBC is hardly an authority on bike racing.

Blood on the bars: Lizzie Deignan's Paris-Roubaix win & a landmark for women's cycling

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/58805044
My word, there's some purple prose in there!*

But after that it settles into a nice piece. Well done Beeb :)

*With the number 13 still visible on her back - in a race where across 125 years men have prayed for all the luck possible to survive - Deignan styled it out, maintaining her centre of gravity and gently straightening her handlebars to counter the fact the rest of her bike was steering her.

As her rear wheel kissed the grass of the sodden verge, her bike slewing to the right now, it was clear this was a moment she had to survive.

With the locals and fans shrieking at what they saw, she engaged all of her core strength to fishtail like a Formula 1 car under full acceleration.

Deignan rode on, untouchable now in the momentum, with a poise and strength that would carry her through gritted teeth to victory. The moment finally came after riding hard and alone for 80 breathless kilometres, her French plait swinging in the cold autumnal breeze.
pete75
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by pete75 »

mattheus wrote: 6 Oct 2021, 3:36pm
thirdcrank wrote: 6 Oct 2021, 3:10pm It's taken a few days to emerge, but here's the BBC's take on it. Before anybody tells me, I do know the BBC is hardly an authority on bike racing.

Blood on the bars: Lizzie Deignan's Paris-Roubaix win & a landmark for women's cycling

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/58805044
My word, there's some purple prose in there!*

But after that it settles into a nice piece. Well done Beeb :)

*With the number 13 still visible on her back - in a race where across 125 years men have prayed for all the luck possible to survive - Deignan styled it out, maintaining her centre of gravity and gently straightening her handlebars to counter the fact the rest of her bike was steering her.

As her rear wheel kissed the grass of the sodden verge, her bike slewing to the right now, it was clear this was a moment she had to survive.

With the locals and fans shrieking at what they saw, she engaged all of her core strength to fishtail like a Formula 1 car under full acceleration.

Deignan rode on, untouchable now in the momentum, with a poise and strength that would carry her through gritted teeth to victory. The moment finally came after riding hard and alone for 80 breathless kilometres, her French plait swinging in the cold autumnal breeze.
Well they got it wrong here "The men's race is dominated by powerful athletes too big to win Grand Tours by challenging in the mountains, but muscular and heavy enough to stay upright on the muddy cobbles and battle it out across 258km. You win through grit and resilience. It's about suffering." Coppi, Bobet, Gimondi, Merkx and Hinault have all won it - five of the greatest Grand Tour riders
'Give me my bike, a bit of sunshine - and a stop-off for a lunchtime pint - and I'm a happy man.' - Reg Baker
slowster
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by slowster »

pete75 wrote: 6 Oct 2021, 7:01pm Well they got it wrong here "The men's race is dominated by powerful athletes too big to win Grand Tours by challenging in the mountains, but muscular and heavy enough to stay upright on the muddy cobbles and battle it out across 258km. You win through grit and resilience. It's about suffering." Coppi, Bobet, Gimondi, Merkx and Hinault have all won it - five of the greatest Grand Tour riders
Present tense. Hinault's win was 40 years ago, and he was the last of the great all rounders.
mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

... and it's now very rare for climber GC riders to even enter Roubaix. (where were Alaphillipe, Rog, Pog ?)
thirdcrank
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by thirdcrank »

mattheus wrote: 7 Oct 2021, 9:52am ... and it's now very rare for climber GC riders to even enter Roubaix. (where were Alaphillipe, Rog, Pog ?)
And when the TdeF includes a bit of L'enfer it can have a big influence on the race.

My memory of pro bike racing is better the further you go back (I could probably name most stage winners from 1958 to 1967 without going online) but I'm surprised to see Bernard Hinault on the PR winners list because I thought I remembered an interview in which he explained why he refused to ride, citing the stupidity of the sections of pavé. I've a vague memory that as road conditions generally improved post-war, PR became increasingly like other road races until a conscious step was taken to preserve and reintroduce the cobbled stretches a bit like listed building status. One thing that's changed since the fall of the Iron Curtain etc is that the pool of top riders has increased considerably so there are enough to run big events simultaneously so eg tour riders compete in races like the Dauphiné (Libéré) while the one-day riders are riding the Spring classics.
mattheus
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Re: Paris Roubaix

Post by mattheus »

I know he rode Roubaix at least once, cos I found film of a chien dumping him off his bike (while googling Pave crashes :roll: ) !
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