Armstrong giving up fight?

[Ontherivet77]

Sorry, in plain English.

Several people stated that EPO & Blood Doping was used by the Postal team and this included Armstrong (allegedly). These witnesses were questioned as part of a criminal investigation into the misuse of public money at US Postal. This information was then passed onto the USADA.

[Mike Sales]

Sorry, in plain English.

Several people stated that EPO & Blood Doping was used by the Postal team and this included Armstrong (allegedly). These witnesses were questioned as part of a criminal investigation into the misuse of public money at US Postal. This information was then passed onto the USADA.

I think you can safely leave out the "allegedly". LA no longer defends hinself against USADA nor sues Tyler Hamilton.

[whoops]

I can't understand all this obsession with LA having to defend himself! Why on earth would he want to prove them all right, that's the accusers job. We've had all this drug nonsense for 60 plus years. It's nothing new. If you believe Wikepedia then half of the cyclists in Europe are guilty and been named. Even a previous five times TDF winner. Am I right in thinking that LA hasn't actually denied taking stimulents only that he has been quoted as saying "I have never failed a drug test." The only good thing to come out of this is that in future all pro racing will be clean! And if you believe that . . . ????

[Si]

The only good thing to come out of this is that in future all pro racing will be clean! And if you believe that . . . ????

Festina deja-vu!

[Ontherivet77]

Personally, I'm glad he is not defending himself because in that he is accepting the USADA's decision and can be stripped of his titles and then cycling can move on. Hopefully, a few other heads will roll as well, particularly at the UCI and then everyone will be happy.

[Trev The Rev]

I read The Secret Race yesterday. Tyler hamilton despite training using EPO, testosterone etc found he was only mid pack in the Tour when he rode 'clean'.

Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

[whoops]

I read The Secret Race yesterday. Tyler hamilton despite training using EPO, testosterone etc found he was only mid pack in the Tour when he rode 'clean'.

Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

I think that's been established. Kimmage and Hamilton are only spouting off what was common knowledge anyway. Anybody would have thought they'd discovered the end of the rainbow. Well, perhaps they did with the sales of their books! Remember the old saying "Old news is not news." They would give a much better service to cycling if the could establish a way to stop cheating once and for all.
Who knows, perhaps when this year's tests are analysed and digested, it could be reveiled that this was the cleanest tour in the history of cycle racing and that Sky won it on a fair, clean, honest to goodness, level playing field.

Incidently, you can't take all you read on Wikipedia as true, or they wouldn't give you the option to change the published facts.

[Trev The Rev]

I read The Secret Race yesterday. Tyler hamilton despite training using EPO, testosterone etc found he was only mid pack in the Tour when he rode 'clean'.

Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

I think that's been established. Kimmage and Hamilton are only spouting off what was common knowledge anyway. Anybody would have thought they'd discovered the end of the rainbow. Well, perhaps they did with the sales of their books! Remember the old saying "Old news is not news." They would give a much better service to cycling if the could establish a way to stop cheating once and for all.
Who knows, perhaps when this year's tests are analysed and digested, it could be reveiled that this was the cleanest tour in the history of cycle racing and that Sky won it on a fair, clean, honest to goodness, level playing field.

Incidently, you can't take all you read on Wikipedia as true, or they wouldn't give you the option to change the published facts.

Cheating should be made a criminal offence - in my opinion it is fraud anyway but for some reason the police in this country don't see it like that. All prize money should be re claimed and massive fines imposed. As it is all they get is a 2 year ban and keep their ill gotten gains. A few 5 year prison terms for fraud would clean things up.

[whoops]

"Cheating should be made a criminal offence - in my opinion it is fraud anyway but for some reason the police in this country don't see it like that. All prize money should be re claimed and massive fines imposed. As it is all they get is a 2 year ban and keep their ill gotten gains. A few 5 year prison terms for fraud would clean things up."[/quote]

I wouldn't argue with that Rev. You're just preaching to the converted here, in my case!

[Mark1978]

AFAIK doping is a criminal offence in France.

[whoops]

http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/yellow.htm

IF Paul KImmage reads this it might give a slight insight to his searches

[Trev The Rev]

http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/yellow.htm

IF Paul KImmage reads this it might give a slight insight to his searches

Brilliant. I got my first racing bike in 1969, I'm sure I read that back then.

[blaugrana]

I read The Secret Race yesterday .... Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

I've read Millar's book and read a lot about Tyler Hamilton's. I still believe (& fervently hope) that Sky are riding clean and that some other (many?) riders are riding clean. I think power outputs are lower (or less sustained) than a few years ago.

I hope the current revelations (and I think they are revelations) will lead to ever-greater transparency, honesty and integrity in pro cycling.

[Trev The Rev]

I read The Secret Race yesterday .... Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

I've read Millar's book and read a lot about Tyler Hamilton's. I still believe (& fervently hope) that Sky are riding clean and that some other (many?) riders are riding clean. I think power outputs are lower (or less sustained) than a few years ago.

I hope the current revelations (and I think they are revelations) will lead to ever-greater transparency, honesty and integrity in pro cycling.

I hope you are right but I fear we will be having the same discussion in 10 years time.

[Ontherivet77]

I read The Secret Race yesterday. Tyler hamilton despite training using EPO, testosterone etc found he was only mid pack in the Tour when he rode 'clean'.

Having read this book and many others I am now of the opinion there are no clean cyclists winning or even getting on the podium in any Grand Tour. And that goes for all nationalities.

I think that's been established. Kimmage and Hamilton are only spouting off what was common knowledge anyway. Anybody would have thought they'd discovered the end of the rainbow. Well, perhaps they did with the sales of their books!
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Err, for the record Paul Kimmage's book Rough Ride was published in 1990, so I don't think you could accuse him of jumping on a bandwagon. If anything he has been pilloried by many cycling fans for years for his views, particularly for challenging Armstrong's legitimacy. In this respect he deserves credit for sticking to his guns.