CTC & Phil Liggett

[itisaboutthebike]

In the wake of Phil Liggetts recent support of Lance Armstrong (ok he's backtracked a little over the last couple of days) should the CTC seek to disassoccaite itself from him ?

My personal opinion is a resounding YES. He's become a laughing stock with vast majority of cycling fans and has been widely ridiculed. As far as I'm concerned he's a Pharmstrong sychophant, who now has no credibilty.

It calls in to question the CTC's judgement by continuing to associate itself with him.

Voice of Cycling ? Voice of a buffon !

[itisaboutthebike]

Mmmm lots of reads..................not many replies.

So we're all Liggett fans on here eh ?

[Gearoidmuar]

Well if he's still dithering, Phil might ask himself the following...

1.Is my judgement better than Nike and the USADA and everybody else who's totally certain that LA is a BS ?

2. Do I have a degree in haematology ?

3. Do I know what a reticulocyte is ?

I like Phil. He's a great commentator but if he doesn't wise up, the attacks will come thick and fast and he'll be in all sorts of trouble...

[Mark1978]

I find trying to banish someone for their support or otherwise or someone who has done wrong to be silly indeed.

[patricktaylor]

I find trying to banish someone for their support or otherwise or someone who has done wrong to be silly indeed.

I agree. The Armstrong saga has little to do with the CTC anyway.

[Gearoidmuar]

I was joking above! They are standard Phil phrases...

The attacks are coming thick and fast..

He's in all sorts of trouble..

The man with the hammer has got him..

etc.

I met him years ago. He's as nice a man as I've ever met..

[Mark1978]

I met him years ago. He's as nice a man as I've ever met..

Which is why it's silly that he's in trouble just because he had misplaced confidence in someone.

[Gearoidmuar]

Of course he shouldn't.

..but he'd be well advised to not persist in defending him etc., when he knows nothing about haematology. He'll find himself ditched, I imagine if he does, but I'm sure he won't. He's the best commentator, though Sean Kelly is the best analyst..

Haematology is the key thing here. I'm not one but was a histopathologist, which is a simlar specialty, and having read about Lance's detailed blood test reports during the TDF a few years ago, I could have no doubt whatsoever about his blood doping. If you put a haematologist in the dock and asked him if he thought there was a natural explanation for these tests, and if so, what was it, you'd have had a goldfish impersonation.

It would be akin to someone saying about somebody who was totally condemned by DNA fingerprinting, "well I think he's innocent anyway".

The tests on Armstrong showed a persistent level of .5% of reticulocytes in the blood. These are immature red blood cells and in the non-transfused person average 1% or greater. Another indicator was that his haemoglobin level didn't drop during the tour. It does normally because people dilute their blood due to severe effort. If you're being topped up, this will not happen.
A haematolgist who was quizzed about the first said that in his opinion there was maybe a one in a million chance that it was natural.

[squeaker]

A haematolgist who was quizzed about the first said that in his opinion there was maybe a one in a million chance that it was natural.

Not defending LA but, IMO, top athletes are a bit of a 'breed apart' - 1 in 1,000,000 maybe?

[mattsccm]

I'll say it here. The biggest damage done to cycling ( and just what the hell do we mean by that??) is done by the media. If all the press just shut up now who would know. I also think its very egotistical, although understandable as we all like to think we are important, to think that more than 1% of the world even cares.

[hondated]

Having once met PL and found him to be a pleasant enough fella and also having listened to him commentating over many years I would just say that he has been guilty of trying to support and defend his friend LA far more vehemently than he should have given his high profile in the sport.
No doubt given LA' s past record PL will now have to consider himself a former friend of LA and in my opinion I see no real reason why he still cannot remain associated with the CTC.

Ps PL is certainly going to find flying with one of the budget airlines far less pleasant than by private jet though.

[thirdcrank]

I don't think I've ever met Phil L but I did write to him once in his capacity as race director of the Milk Race. (By coincidence, it was after I had spent some time spectating at the roadsude near Stump Cross Caverns with non other than J Savile. )

His reply was detailed and interesting, covering every point I raised with no suggestion of a brush off. I had opened my letter by mentioning that my then small son was a keen cyclist. He included a bagful of race souvenirs including an official "massed start cap" with the logos Milk Race" and "competitor." Up to now, his only real trangression has been calling race officials "referees." I think that on balance, his contribution to the sport has been a big one, even if he's got it wrong over LA.

[patricktaylor]

Yes, nice chap. My brother went up to Phil and asked him for a pic holding his (my brother's) young son. No problem. And there are many qualities, such as loyalty.

[Mark1978]

Good to see we aren't about to condemn someone just because they weren't prepared to comdemn someone else until there was concrete proof.

[Si]

I feel quite sorry for Phil. LA was obviously one of his heroes and he emotionally invested quite highly in LA, no doubt thinking that LA was the best thing since sliced bread for cycling (remember the Phil has a lot to do with US cycling and LA really did increase the positive profile of cycling over there). Now he must be feeling very betrayed and confused as his hero has sold him down the river, and turned much of what he said in commentary over the years (said with totally honest intentions I might add) into lies.

It's little wonder that he was very hesitant to believe the allegations when they started to gather momentum but before all of the most damning evidence had come to light....after all, through out his career there have always been allegations about LA (as with any great champion) yet the authorities had never proved anything.