DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 1 Mar 2016, 6:07am

I voted for rebrand not a change of name, please stop trying to mislead CTC members of my view.
I told you before the minutes do not reflect the true picture of either mine and other dissenting voices.
Before talking about resigning the entire council would have resigned by now
in fact, two Councillors did resign over charity, and one deputy chair resign because he refuses to sign the accounts because they did not reflect a true picture.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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TonyR
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby TonyR » 1 Mar 2016, 8:24am

Philip Benstead wrote:I voted for rebrand not a change of name, please stop trying to mislead CTC members of my view.



"Rebranding is a marketing strategy in which a new name, term, symbol, design, or combination thereof is created for an established brand with the intention of developing a new, differentiated identity in the minds of consumers, investors, competitors, and other stakeholders"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 1 Mar 2016, 8:38am

TonyR wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:I voted for rebrand not a change of name, please stop trying to mislead CTC members of my view.



"Rebranding is a marketing strategy in which a new name, term, symbol, design, or combination thereof is created for an established brand with the intention of developing a new, differentiated identity in the minds of consumers, investors, competitors, and other stakeholders"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding

Many companies rebrand but do not change the eg pepsie mac donalds etc
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

AndyK
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby AndyK » 1 Mar 2016, 9:48am

TonyR wrote:Were the membership ever consulted on previous rebrands? Do other organisations consult? Vide
https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/PDF/Bran ... 202013.pdf
https://staging.scouts.org.uk/documents ... 015%20.pdf


Based on these references, it seems they do - especially the scouts one, where they say they involved scouts in coming up with ideas for the new branding, with the final designs being worked up by the designers based on those outcomes. Note: they didn't just survey the membership about whether there should be a rebranding, they involved them in the rebranding process. Very much a 'bottom-up' approach. I see the Guides used a network of volunteers to canvass opinion. This is all very labour-intensive, of course, and may result in something that challenges the preconceptions of the organisation's leaders, but it makes it much more likely that the membership will be on board with the change.

TonyR
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby TonyR » 1 Mar 2016, 10:16am

From the Council Minutes for January 2014:

The recommendation is to move to a self-explanatory name so it is obvious who CTC are and what we do. He felt the process has been very thorough, over 8,000 people have responded, on-line focus groups have taken place, we couldn’t do anymore to consult with our members.

...........

Motion:
Agree in principle to a trading name change. Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association. To set up a new working group to carry out further work to look at the implementation and wider brand issues as well as any name change. To bring a report back to Council in April for approval.

Proposed by: Barry Flood Seconded by: Philip Benstead
Vote of above Motion:
In favour = 10 Against = 3 Abstained = 2
Motion Carried

Psamathe
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Psamathe » 1 Mar 2016, 10:18am

TonyR wrote:From the Council Minutes for January 2014:

...Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association....

Sounds like a far better name that WACU.

Ian

ElCampesino
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby ElCampesino » 1 Mar 2016, 11:30am

Coming back to practicalities, if I want to submit the proposed petition, do I have to request a copy from Phil and then return it?

Can't I just print off a copy somewhere and then send the signed petition to Phil?

EC

Bicycler
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Bicycler » 1 Mar 2016, 11:33am

As a Scout leader I got used to the periodic logo, uniform, age-range, programme etc. tweaking every few years and the linked example is nothing more than that (in fact its a fairly minor tweak compared to ones in recent history). OTOH, if it was proposed that the Scouts be rebranded to KidsUK (KUK) / We Are KidsUK then that would be a major change worthy of some very intensive consultation within the movement. I don't think that many people would be happy with it being imposed from above.
Last edited by Bicycler on 1 Mar 2016, 11:37am, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Psamathe » 1 Mar 2016, 11:37am

Bicycler wrote:As a Scout leader I got used to the periodic logo, uniform, age-range, programme etc. tweaking every few years and this is nothing more than that. If it was proposed that the Scouts be rebranded to KidsUK (KUK) / We Are KidsUK then that would be a major change worthy of some very intensive consultation within the movement. I don't think that many people would be happy with it being imposed from above.

Not even if the CEO makes a statement about how the name KidsUK would enable them to further enhance their offering for traditional scouting in the UK ?

Ian

Bicycler
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Bicycler » 1 Mar 2016, 11:43am

No, it could spark a mutiny :lol: But then again it is a very different type of membership organisation and probably not a good one to draw a comparison to. Obviously Scouting is all about its members, whereas they are a small part of the CTC's objectives.

fishfright
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby fishfright » 1 Mar 2016, 11:48am

Philip Benstead wrote:I voted for rebrand not a change of name, please stop trying to mislead CTC members of my view.
I told you before the minutes do not reflect the true picture of either mine and other dissenting voices.
Before talking about resigning the entire council would have resigned by now
in fact, two Councillors did resign over charity, and one deputy chair resign because he refuses to sign the accounts because they did not reflect a true picture.



Can you share what the bold section is about?

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robgul
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby robgul » 1 Mar 2016, 1:53pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
TonyR wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:I voted for rebrand not a change of name, please stop trying to mislead CTC members of my view.



"Rebranding is a marketing strategy in which a new name, term, symbol, design, or combination thereof is created for an established brand with the intention of developing a new, differentiated identity in the minds of consumers, investors, competitors, and other stakeholders"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebranding

Many companies rebrand but do not change the eg pepsie mac donalds etc


Another high-profile example : Mr Google has just undertaken a "rebrand" by just changing the font used for the word Google
[They did also change the corporate structure calling the holding company by a different name but that's not relevant to the users of the Google services]

Rebranding does NOT necessarily mean changing the name despite what the often incorrect Wikipedia suggests - although the text quote above from that source is neither conclusive or finite.

Rob

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 1 Mar 2016, 3:21pm

Update of petition for poll of whole club

I have received 300 signature so far I am expecting more in the post tomorrow
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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gaz
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby gaz » 1 Mar 2016, 6:55pm

Philip Benstead wrote:... two Councillors did resign over charity, ...


John Meudell and Greg Price resigned from Council during the process of the Charity conversion. This post from Greg may also be worth a read for background.
Hand wash only. Do not iron.

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 1 Mar 2016, 7:54pm

I hope these notes bring some clarity to my position.

If you would like to discuss my position please contact me on 0794 980 16978 or 020 7630 0475

I note that some contributors on this forum seem to have great delight in either not reading what I wrote or deliberately miss understand.
Note that the minutes do not reflect what was said at any CTC meeting.

I have stated many time they should seek election to CTC Council, but they refuse on the grounds they are not qualified. Some of these contributors state they barely have any involvement with their local member group, even there is one less than five miles away.
Please note my experience of involvement with the CTC.
NATIONAL (Director/Trusteeships)

2013 - 2015 CTC Cycling Holidays & Tours Ltd
1996 – 2006 Cycle Touring Countryside Trust

CTC (Cyclists’ Touring Club)
Councillor (Non-Executive Director)
2013 - 2015 South East (Uncontested)
2003 - 2007 Greater London (Contest)
1996 - 1998 East England (Contested)
1992 - 1994 Kent and East Sussex (Contested)
1991 Stood for National Council election failed by 16 votes the highest loser
Observer at Council meetings 1989 – 1991?

CTC COUNCIL COMMITTEES

2013 – 2014 Strategy and Policy
2004 - 2006 Management
2003 – 2007 Operations
1996 - 98 Publicity, Promotion & Public Relations
1993 Think Tank
1993 - 94 Chair, Leisure & Cycle Touring
1992 - Road Safety & Transport Planning

REGIONAL - CTC LONDON
2008 - current Secretary
2003 - Event Organiser
2000 - Marketing Officer
2000 - 01 Minutes Secretary
2000- current committee member

LOCAL - CTC WEST KENT
1992 - 95 Newcomers Group Founder/Secretary
1986 -91 Social Cttee Chair 87-91
1977-79 & 1986 - 96 Outdoors Events Cttee, Chair 96
1977 - 79 & 84 – 95 Event Organiser – 10 events
1977/78 Clubroom Cttee
1976/77 Hardriders Secretary
1975/77 DA Cttee
1975 -95 Rides Leader

CTC CENTRAL LONDON
2006 - current Rides Leader

NON CYCLING POSITION
IRSF Office Secretary (Elected)
0 Labour Party Branch Secretary (Elected)
CLP Labour Party Executive Committee (Elected)
CLP Labour Party General Committee (Elected)
IRSO Full Member

I was in favor of the CTC protect a relevant image to the potential new and current members. The name change was suggested but I had suggested but not record in the minutes that it world be a good idea that the letters CTC should be kept and have a strapline that told what we do. As time moved on and with a change of CEO my view begin to change. With the CEO stated aim said directly to me face to face that he wishes to get rid of the entire council and get new smaller council. At that meeting I thought he had a similar meeting with all of the other councillor, I then realized that he only had meeting with a few. I then thought why me, two reason came to mind, the first he considers me important, I reject that out of hand, the second was I was trouble make or obstacle to his plan, well hole in one.
So I change my mind to any proposed name change and that the actual vote was taken when I was no longer on council.

Note the meaning of “agreeing in principal”, that is the meaning I took it to mean

As a CTC council and as human being I reserve the right to change my mind.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/in%20principle in principle

In principle describes a basic idea. If your mother supports your travel plans in principle, she likes the idea of you getting out and seeing the world — though this could change when she sees the cost of the trip.
If you agree to something in principle, it means you're in favor of it based on what you know so far — the principle, or the idea, seems good to you. For example, while a lot of people support the idea of a new garbage dump in principle, few of them are happy to learn that it will be built near their homes.

Nb "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"

Changing Your Mind

What's the greatest barrier to changing one's mind?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ha ... -your-mind


Motion:
Agree in principle to a trading name change. Take the necessary action to register and protect the name of National Cycling Association. To set up a new working group to carry out further work to look at the implementation and wider brand issues as well as any name change. To bring a report back to Council in April for approval.
Proposed by: Barry Flood Seconded by: Philip Benstead
Vote of above Motion:
In favour = 10 Against = 3 Abstained = 2 Motion Carried
The report to Council should include the total cost of rebranding and transitional costs, with a fully worked up raft of initiatives.
Gwenda Owen made an observation being new to Council - saying that Council should make the decision, are we not losing sight of why we are doing this.
Jaki Lowe reiterated that she wouldn't want to start the work again as a huge amount of work has already taken place. Arthur Spurr commented that more clarity was needed.

NOTE THIS
David Cox said he was taken by comments from Gwenda Owen and Jaki Lowe and would feel uncomfortable without taking it to the Membership without more consensus.


Jaki Lowe confirmed the remit of the new group must be clear and agreed to draft the ‘Terms of Reference’ for the group. Attached are the draft remit word read out by Jaki at the meeting. Councillors wanting to be involved in the new group and those on the existing group and want to continue should email Jaki by Friday 24/1/14.
Last edited by Philip Benstead on 2 Mar 2016, 5:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic