DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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gaz
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby gaz » 9 Mar 2016, 6:33pm

As TonyR shows above, Council announced in Cycle in December 2013 that they had consulted the membership on re-brand and that Council would now make the decision. That course of action was within Council's authority.
Karen Sutton wrote:So it would seem that concerns were raised about going ahead with the name change with no mention of it to the membership, but it was not concerning enough for the Board to pause things and consult.

At the January 2014 Council meeting the issue of a re-brand was debated without a decision being made on taking matters to an AGM. The Chair stated that he would not be happy to change the trading name without an AGM vote without concensus on Council (i.e. with concensus on Council he would be happy to proceed without an AGM vote).

Karen Sutton wrote:Those councillors who originally agreed with investigating a change of name should be forgiven for not expecting the name change to be pushed through in the way it has been; with councillors being worn to secrecy about it.

To me it seems reasonable that Council understood the Chair's position, that if concensus on a re-brand could be achieved it would not need to go to an AGM vote.

The next two years have been the pause. The period has seen further deliberation in Council and its sub-Committees, appointment of a new set of consultants and further consultations. Through that process the Chair has achieved the concensus on Council that he wanted. It is hard for me to view that as being "pushed through".
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Steady rider
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Steady rider » 9 Mar 2016, 7:18pm

The Feedback on the CTC's future mentions about Cycle Clips for updates of the review. What information was provided in CycleClips ?

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gaz
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby gaz » 9 Mar 2016, 7:59pm

Steady rider wrote:The Feedback on the CTC's future mentions about Cycle Clips for updates of the review. What information was provided in CycleClips ?

I don't receive CycleClips and whilst it's possible to find back issues on the CTC website I've little inclination to plough through them.

There was a further mention in Cycle February 2014 from the Vice Chair of Council.
... we still need greater recognition amongst the wider public. When you say you belong to CTC, how often do you hear: "What's CTC?"

To be really successful in the future, CTC needs a strong membership base and to be recognised in the wider world. CTC Council and our Chief executive have been focused on steps to ensure both are achieved, and some may be quite radical. Watch this space! ...

I don't keep back issue of Cycle and the on-line editions are incomplete. I can't help much more with what else happened if you did "Watch this space!"

I've mentioned previously that re-branding got a mention from Paul Touhy in February 2015 edition of Cycle.
... We are also working on how we better communicate what CTC is, in order to attract new members and supporters. I am often told by stakeholders who work with us that we need to be more visible and make our work better known. Millions of people with bikes have never heard of CTC; I want to make sure that they get the message. To do this, we are looking at our brand and image, and how we communicate what we are and what we do to support cycling for all. We have the history but we haven't used our heritage to good effect. I think it's one of our greatest assets and, if marketed correctly, could help us be the home for a new generation of cyclists.


Once we have seen the complete brand package we can discuss how well we feel it provides for the correct marketing of our heritage; or we could just start now :wink: .
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Euskadi
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Euskadi » 10 Mar 2016, 10:19am

smuggers wrote:Not wanting to get involved in the rights & wrongs of the re-branding, I do think it's quite shocking that the majority of our club members, knew nothing about the change of name at our clubroom slideshow last Thursday.. This cant be right & some of our elder members felt let down by the CTC.. Some with 40+ years of loyalty towards the CTC.. Personally I shall be watching developments & if I feel the CTC is heading in the wrong direction I will look elsewhere to meet my needs as a touring cyclist... I probably need to have a good sit down and read the reams of posts & information online.


I have been a member for nearly 48 years; my entire life as my father registered me as a member before I was born. I don't recall there being much debate on this issue and I don't recall Cycling UK (or whatever forgettable name it is now going to be) being discussed. I have no idea what this pointless and no doubt expensive re-brand means for how CTC will in future be campaigning, or what it means for my specific interests as a cycle tourer. Presumably there must be a change in approach, or why spend all the money and effort to re-brand? The CTC logo is iconic and instantly recognisable. Whatever bland crap the marketing gurus are going to come up with (nice to know my membership fee is being spent on really important issues) for Cycling UK, it will be a very sad day to see such a long lived and proud organisation reduced to such a shambolic confused state. Maybe the current group running CTC should go and take over the YHA and re-brand it to Walkers [not crisps] UK PLC.

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 11 Mar 2016, 2:57pm

Update to Rebranding Petition 561 so far, keep them coming so we make a statement.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 11 Mar 2016, 6:03pm

CTC IS PLAYING FAST AND LOSES WITH THE TRUTH

Philip

Thank you for your messages. The Executive Committee met earlier today to discuss this issue and agree next steps.

Your Petition

Your petition was received and acknowledged by me on Friday last. The initial assessment of the National Office team is that it is valid with over 200 signatures from members.

The response required is specified by the articles of association of the charity: article 11.3 requires the details of a valid petition (one with 200 signatures) to be published ‘in the next issue but one of the Club magazine’.

Arrangements are now in place to ensure that this occurs in the June/July edition.

The Content of the Notice in the Magazine

It will be necessary to consider the most appropriate manner in which to communicate to members the reasons for the ballot and your concerns. In doing so, the trustees must act in the best interests of the charity as a whole.

That does not require that:

• the arguments on either side must be set out at equal length, that your views must have equal exposure via CTC communications channels; or that

• your views should be expressed without editorial control. In order to set out the issues for members in a responsible and balanced manner, it may be necessary to make changes that go further than editing for clarity and this would not amount to ‘censorship’ as you have suggested.

The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.

The content of the magazine will be decided in the usual way and we will be in touch again in due course.

Meanwhile, have a good weekend.

Regards

Shivaji


Shivaji Shiva
Senior Associate
for Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP




From: Philip Benstead1 [mailto:philipbenstead1@gmail.com]
Sent: 09 March 2016 19:45
To: Shivaji Shiva; Paul Tuohy
Cc: CTC Council
Subject: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club [38223.0002]
Importance: High



Thank you for your email.

Please can you supply the course of action and timetable for this poll of the whole club.

Can you also list the arrangements by which the arguments for either side will be conveyed to CTC members?

I also request an undertaking that any submission of argument on either side will equal in length and will have equal exposure via CTC official conducts.

Furthermore, I seek assurances that my submissions from my side will be free of censorship, any editorial control must be limited to the process of aiding clarity.

I look forward to your reply soon.



Thank you for your help in this matter.

Philip Benstead B.Env.Sc. (Hons.) | FORMER CTC Councillor
| Mobile: 0794-980-1698 | Email: philipbenstead1@gmail.com | Westminster, London, SW1

Organizing cycling events/rides and representing cyclist interests in GLA area and Home Counties since 1988.

Do want to go on a Social Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/

DfT/CTC Bikeability Instructor / Instructor Trainer and Level 3 Cycle Mechanic


From: Shivaji Shiva [mailto:Shivaji.Shiva@anthonycollins.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 11:29 AM
To: 'Philip Benstead1' <philipbenstead1@gmail.com>
Cc: CTC COUNCIL
Subject: RE: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club [38223.0002]

Philip

Thank you for this message.

As CTC’s legal adviser, I will speak to the National Office team, consult David Cox as Chair of Council and respond in due course.

Shivaji

Shivaji Shiva
Senior Associate
for Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP





From: Philip Benstead1 [mailto:philipbenstead1@gmail.com]
Sent: 03 March 2016 11:16
To: 'PhilipBenstead1'
Cc: CTC Council
Subject: CTC Rebranding - Petition for Poll of the whole club


David Cox – Chair / Paul Touhy - Chief Executive
Cyclists’ Touring Club
Parklands,
Railton Road,
Guildford,
Surrey, GU2 9JX
Philip Benstead
CTC Brand Petition,
19 Greencoat Mansions,
Greencoat Row,
Westminster,
London, SW1P 1PG
philipbenstead1@gmail.com
0794-980-1698

Thursday, 03 March 2016

Dear Sirs,

I have despatch a package to you today by registered post please confirm safe receipt of this package by emailing philipbenstead1@gmail.com

In accordance with Article 11 Memorandum of Association of the Cyclists’ Touring Club (As Amended by the AGM On 12 May 2012)

A poll of the whole Club shall be taken if either one third of the members of the Council or 200 Members of the Club shall within three months of the passing of a resolution in a Council Meeting or General Meeting lodge with the Secretary a petition in writing signed by the petitioning members)

I am submitting is petition on behalf of CTC members to demand a polls of the whole club in regard the motion passed at CTC Council meeting on 23rd January 2016 that agree to the replacement of the existing “Cyclists` Touring Club or CTC” and associated logo(s) and heritage marks with “CYCLING UK” or any other branding name and logo(s).

We are petitioning the CTC to demand a poll of the whole club so CTC members will have the opportunity to indorse or overturn the motion.

I would be obliged if you would confirm receipt of this letter and the enclosures by return.

The petition comprises 47 sheets, containing the names, CTC membership number and signatures of 392 members of the CTC. I have excluded signatures without a CTC membership number or otherwise spoiled. This exceeds the 200 signatures required under Article 11.

I have taken advice from my CTC Councillors on the procedure to be followed for the petition. I understand that the CTC is required to publish full details of the petition in the next but one issue of the Club magazine to be distributed after the petition has been lodged. Councillors confirm that would be the June/July 2016 edition.

Please note that, in addition to taking advice from councillors, I have informed CTC Councillors for the petition, to whom I am copying this letter, and understand that they will be closely monitoring how it is dealt with by the National Office and Council. I have been assured that the advice and support of councillors will fully available to me at all stages of the process.

Also I have photocopied these sheets and in addition I expect many more sheets will be arriving in the near future which I will forward to you in due course.

Yours faithfully,



Philip Benstead
BRAND PETITION COORDINATOR AND POST-BOX
Cc CTC Council
Last edited by Philip Benstead on 12 Mar 2016, 11:32am, edited 1 time in total.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Labrat
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Labrat » 11 Mar 2016, 6:11pm

The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.



Feels like we are getting half a story here...

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 12 Mar 2016, 11:34am

Labrat wrote:
The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.



Feels like we are getting half a story here...


What do you think is missing, i have now place the full communications in regard to this issue on this forum, remembering to remove email addresses.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Psamathe » 12 Mar 2016, 12:03pm

Philip Benstead wrote:...
The Content of the Notice in the Magazine

... the trustees must act in the best interests of the charity as a whole.

That does not require that:

• the arguments on either side must be set out at equal length, that your views must have equal exposure via CTC communications channels; or that

• your views should be expressed without editorial control. In order to set out the issues for members in a responsible and balanced manner, it may be necessary to make changes that go further than editing for clarity and this would not amount to ‘censorship’ as you have suggested.

The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.
...

Wonder what would happen if the party in power of Westminster government decided that for the next General Election they must act in the interests of the UK and in their judgement those interests are best served by them staying in power for another term. Thus, whilst TV Party Election broadcasts will remain, they (political party in power) will make not only their own party broadcasts but broadcasts for other parties as well - just to ensure the electorate got the information to ensure they vote in their best interests (i.e. to keep same party in power). Also, all election fliers (brochures posted through letterboxes) for all candidates of all parties will be written by the current party in power, etc.

I don't think it would be considered a very fair vote. I even think it would bring the organisers into some disrepute and (quite rightly) expose them to a lot of ridicule and loss of credibility. But regarded as "normal practice" for the CTC!!

Ian

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Philip Benstead
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Philip Benstead » 12 Mar 2016, 12:13pm

I note that Shivaji Shiva signs himself Senior Associate for Anthony Collins Solicitors LLP instead of CTC Honorary Consulting Solicitor, what can we infer from this?
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Labrat
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Labrat » 12 Mar 2016, 12:19pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Labrat wrote:
The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.



Feels like we are getting half a story here...


What do you think is missing, i have now place the full communications in regard to this issue on this forum, remembering to remove email addresses.


Philip, Thank you for adding the emails that give the context of the 'assurances' comment

For what its worth, I don't think your demand was at all reasonable - I don't believe that anyone in charge of any print magazine could ever agree to an undertaking that "editorial control must be limited to the process of aiding clarity", and I don't think that them refusing to agree to do so amounts to unfair 'censorship', particularly given some of the comments that you have aimed against individuals via here and FB.

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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Psamathe » 12 Mar 2016, 1:13pm

Labrat wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:
CTC Legal wrote:The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.

What do you think is missing, i have now place the full communications in regard to this issue on this forum, remembering to remove email addresses.


Philip, Thank you for adding the emails that give the context of the 'assurances' comment

For what its worth, I don't think your demand was at all reasonable - I don't believe that anyone in charge of any print magazine could ever agree to an undertaking that "editorial control must be limited to the process of aiding clarity", and I don't think that them refusing to agree to do so amounts to unfair 'censorship', particularly given some of the comments that you have aimed against individuals via here and FB.

They could have agreed to equal coverage and prominence. They could have agreed to no censorship within relevant and legal constraints (e.g. issues relating to the change of name/branding). There are plenty of things they could have agreed to but rather just said "no". Which in itself speaks volumes about how the CTC seems to operate these days.

Ian

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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Labrat » 12 Mar 2016, 2:58pm

Psamathe wrote:They could have agreed to equal coverage and prominence. They could have agreed to no censorship within relevant and legal constraints (e.g. issues relating to the change of name/branding). There are plenty of things they could have agreed to but rather just said "no". Which in itself speaks volumes about how the CTC seems to operate these days.

Ian


They haven't said that they wouldn't do any of those things either, they just didn't agree to bind themselves to Philips demands.

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gaz
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby gaz » 12 Mar 2016, 3:01pm

In due course we will see what is published in Cycle and I've little doubt that we'll also get to see the unredacted version either here or elsewhere on the web. Council's submissions will also be subject to the editorial process.

Here's a thread from the last time we went through the editorial process of publishing a Poll of the Whole Club.
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Psamathe
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Re: DEMAND FOR A POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB

Postby Psamathe » 12 Mar 2016, 3:16pm

Labrat wrote:
Psamathe wrote:They could have agreed to equal coverage and prominence. They could have agreed to no censorship within relevant and legal constraints (e.g. issues relating to the change of name/branding). There are plenty of things they could have agreed to but rather just said "no". Which in itself speaks volumes about how the CTC seems to operate these days.

Ian


They haven't said that they wouldn't do any of those things either, they just didn't agree to bind themselves to Philips demands.

I suppose what I'm thinking is that their
CTC Legal wrote:The charity will not therefore be providing the assurances you request.

Is being being uncooperative and needlessly unhelpful. What I would have said is along the lines of "Whilst at this time we cannot give specific assurances, the magazine and CTC will undoubtedly ensure that members get full and balanced reports of all issues relating to the decision they have to make which will undoubtedly include arguments both for and against by interested parties". CTC's response was just grumpy and uncooperative, whilst along the lines of the alternative said probably less but was more cooperative and would create less negative reaction. It's yet another indication as to how CTC views it's members and particularly those members that disagree with the way things are being run at the top.

And their
CTC Legal wrote:... the trustees must act in the best interests of the charity as a whole.

Suggests that if the trustees think voting for the new name/marketing is in the interests of the charity then they must act to see that such a decision is made by the membership (and I interpret the implication being that "trustees must act in the best interests of the charity as a whole" is more important than a balanced presentation of both sides to the issue).

Ian

Ian