Communication with CTC Councillors

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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Philip Benstead
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Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 18 Mar 2016, 8:54pm

I tried to have a chat today with a CTC Councillor for the SE. I wanted to know his view of the culture of the CTC. He accused me of being hostile towards the CTC and was putting CTC HQ under pressure. He thought that was unacceptable given I had been a previously been a long serving CTC Councillor. He also thought it was not appropriate for a CTC Councillor to talk to me.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
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Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
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mjr
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby mjr » 18 Mar 2016, 9:19pm

"Not appropriate" to talk to one of his constituents? :eek: Not even politicians of political parties I've opposed pull that stunt on me... so a CTC councillor is more extreme than the extremists!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 18 Mar 2016, 10:33pm

If you would like to contact your regional CTC Council to tell them what you think of the direction of the CTC,
the details can be obtained at this link.

I have listed their email address below.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/sites/default/fil ... telist.pdf

David Cox Chair West Midlands david.cox@ctc.org.uk
Dan Howard Vice Chair West Midlands Em: dan.howard@ctc.org.uk
Welna Bowden North West Em: welna.bowden@ctc.org.uk
Jim Brown East Em: jim.brown@ctc.org.uk
Martyn Bolt Yorkshire & the Humber Em: martyn.bolt@ctc.org.uk
Martin Cockersole East Em: martin.cockersole@ctc.org.uk
Stephen Coe South West Em: stephen.coe@ctc.org.uk
Barry Flood Ireland and Overseas Em: barry.flood@ctc.org.uk
Kristian Gregory London Em: kristian.gregory@ctc.org.uk
Julian James South West Em: julian.james@ctc.org.uk
Jaki Lowe East Midlands Em: jaki.lowe@ctc.org.uk
Ian McCabe South East Em: ian.mccabe@ctc.org.uk
Jonathan Naughton South East Em: jonathan.naughton@ctc.org.uk
Gwenda Owen Region: Wales Em: gwenda.owen@ctc.org.uk
Lizzie Reather Yorkshire & the Humber Em: lizzie.reather@ctc.org.uk
Ian Wescombe South East Em: ian.wescombe@ctc.org.uk
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 24 Mar 2016, 9:06am

From: Dave Rix [mailto:
Sent: 19 March 2016 22:16
To: philipbenstead1@gmail.com
Subject: Fw: CTC re-branding query
Hi Phil,
Our member group were concerned after all the information that has been circulating over the last month or so. We were not aware previously of any intention to rename the Club. At a Committee Meeting a week ago we passed a resolution saying that we would continue as East Sussex Cyclists' Touring Club and would not be using or promoting the name Cycling UK. As instructed by our Committee I then wrote to David Cox, Chair of Council, informing him of this, and at the same time asking how such a change could be made without the agreement of the membership and a vote at an AGM.
Below is the reply I received, which worried us, since it says that all the poll will do "is ask Council to reconsider, potentially delaying the full impact of a change in brand name and logo." I contacted David Cox again for clarification, stating that we understood that the poll was to ask the membership whether they wanted the name change or not. His reply was that, "The terms of reference for the poll of the club are determined by our Mem and Arts and the outcome of the poll if it goes against a Council motion is to delay by six months. Thereafter it is Council’s duty to do what it thinks is best for the organisation. The poll is not a means of making policy. This is nothing to do with censorship or the twisting of words."
Having looked at the Memorandum and articles of Association of the Club, it would appear that if the vote goes against the Council they can simply wait the 6 months and then do what they like.
I believe that you need to find someone who can look at the articles of association from a legal standpoint and see whether their is any way to challenge this. I believe as you have stated that they are playing fast and loose with the truth. David Cox says below that, "Decisions requiring AGM approval within the Memorandum and Articles of Association are quite specific and there is no requirement to submit current brands and images which might be expected to change from time to time." This is his interpretation, but there is nothing in the Articles saying what can and cannot be put to an AGM, nor is there anything stating that the Council have the power to change the name of the Club.
I am starting to get the impression that in the long run there may be little to do to stop this.
Regards,
Dave Rix

East Sussex Cyclists' Touring Club
web: http://www.eastsussexctc.org.uk
email:
mail:
East Sussex CTC is a local group of CTC, the UK's national cyclists' organisation.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dave Cox
Date: 18 March 2016 at 13:47
Subject: Re: CTC re-branding
To: Dave Rix
Cc: Jonathan Naughton Ian Wescombe Ian McCabe Paul Tuohy Matt Mallinder >, David Murray
Dear Dave,
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you this has been a busy week with a long day out at Guildford National Office and various other duties but also a great spring ride meeting up with old friends from Coventry CTC.
I note the resolution passed by your Member Group indicates that you opposed the adoption of the new brand and I have ensured that colleagues are aware of this. I have copied in your SE England Councillors so that they are aware of your views.
As you probably know from my letter to Member Group secretaries CTC Member Groups will not need to change their names, their jerseys or other aspects of their branding unless they want to. Most Member Groups have a clear identity and touring orientation that is recognised by local club cyclists and they will be free to maintain that identity. Council have insisted that it will continue to be possible to obtain classic kit and winged wheel badges – and we plan to develop further items drawing on the charity’s rich heritage. I am not sure of the extent to which the 20 year old “lazy bicycle” logo is loved, even relatively recently there were AGM resolutions criticising it. However the winged wheel will be retained and of course Cyclists Touring Club continues to be the name of the company and the charity.
Council is elected and required to manage the activities of the charity and reports annually at the AGM. Decisions requiring AGM approval within the Memorandum and Articles of Association are quite specific and there is no requirement to submit current brands and images which might be expected to change from time to time. There is always the option of voting against adoption of the Annual Report if members are unhappy with the direction of travel. However, now the petition for a Poll of the Whole Club has been received and this will go ahead. All this would do is ask Council to reconsider, potentially delaying the full impact of a change in brand name and logo. I am surprised that your previous Councillors did not warn your group when attending AGMs that a brand change was on the cards because I have been giving West Midlands groups a heads up for some years and some are impatient for the new brand to be confirmed so they can design new kit. Many of the others I have to say are quite happy to ride around in an assortment of jerseys from Lidl and Aldi.
I am confident that Council has acted properly and constitutionally in this matter. There are also commercial considerations to a protracted launch going through an AGM resolution which would reduce the impact of a new image. It is not easy choosing a new brand as is evident from the various suggestions now being made on Facebook by our critics.
May I offer some background to the information provided by Julie Rand because I have been involved in this for some years? The rebrand has a long history going back at least until 2011 when Sarah Matthews (then a co-opted Councillor with a marketing background) and myself helped Kevin Mayne commission some research using focus groups on our current brand. The result was very worrying very few non-members had heard of us at all and CTC even with a strap line didn’t convey all of what we did to the general public, keen cyclists or even to members. I am very aware of just how invisible CTC is you only have to go on a mass participation cycle ride like the Prudential Ride London or Coventry’s delightful Godiva Ride wearing CTC kit. It is a lonely experience! I have looked at your excellent Group website and note that your own jersey is an entirely original design not in “club” colours although unlike many such sites I do like the way the national organisation and its current logo is integrated into the webpage and the information links.
We had hoped that CTC would achieve the same impact as AA RAC or IBM with just the initials conveying a long established and respected organisation with a wide range of interests and contributions. Apart from some older club cyclists in and outside CTC this is not the case. When you are fighting to get your view across in a TV or Radio interview spelling out CTC just loses time and interest.
Council later set up a working group and worked with another consultancy who did even more extensive research and confirmed our invisibility but came up with a name The National Cycling Association which Council rejected because it was so boring. Our new consultants Campfire did another round of consultation but of course without leaking a proposal and giving rival organisations a heads up. I believe they have done a thorough and good job capturing the essence of what CTC does and trying to overcome the difficulties that Council has been worried about for some time. If we miss the roll out this Spring when people think again about getting out cycling etc then we waste another year. For the first time CTC will have a proper brand common to all national publications, communications and digital media BUT this is an umbrella brand. Cyclists Touring Club in addition to being the official company and charity name will also feature in our touring activities and I hope in the distinctive identity of many of our ride groups.
Finally my bikes will however continue to feature Winged Wheel transfers (provided a new supply is ordered) because for a small group of aficionados they are heritage, legacy and intriguing and I’ll be doing the Eroica Britannia in my classic wool jersey.
Best wishes
David
David Cox OBE
Chair of Council
CTC
http://www.eastsussexctc
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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Philip Benstead
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 24 Mar 2016, 9:28am

Does the CT want to communicate with it members?

I HAVE PERMISSION TO USE THIS

I was having a chat with an old friend Bob Damper of Southampton CTC

He told two interesting stories

Story 1


He emailed

David cox
Paul Tuohy
Roger Geffen

On a confidential matter

He received no reply

He has then sent a hard copy still no reply.


Story 2


Bob wrote to the three recently elected south east England councillor, inviting them to talk to his group. Only Jonathan reply agreeing to come.

Ian McCabe
Ian Wescombe
Jonathan Naughton
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby roubaixtuesday » 24 Mar 2016, 9:48am

Interesting that David Cox's letter seems to be quoted as a bad thing.

This:

The result was very worrying very few non-members had heard of us at all and CTC even with a strap line didn’t convey all of what we did to the general public, keen cyclists or even to members...

...We had hoped that CTC would achieve the same impact as AA RAC or IBM with just the initials conveying a long established and respected organisation with a wide range of interests and contributions. Apart from some older club cyclists in and outside CTC this is not the case. When you are fighting to get your view across in a TV or Radio interview spelling out CTC just loses time and interest.


seems absolutely spot on the money to me.

Power to his elbow.

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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby mjr » 24 Mar 2016, 12:11pm

BrianFox wrote:
...When you are fighting to get your view across in a TV or Radio interview spelling out CTC just loses time and interest.


seems absolutely spot on the money to me.

Power to his elbow.

Partially-correct diagnosis but wrong treatment? It's rather missing the point. CTC didn't become a recognised brand partly because its spokespeople were often the types who would waste time nerdily spelling out CTC, rather than concentrating on getting the CTC view across and thus demonstrating what it does and building its reputation that way. With the organisation I campaign for, no-one really cares what KLWNBUG expands to - they care what we stand for (or sit for!)

CTC's activist development and training has been pretty poor, as far as I've seen. I've not yet seen anything that suggests the new brand package will correct any of that, plus it puts history in the bin and it annoys a lot of people in various ways.

In addition to all the other brands it's confusable with, the claim "We Are Cycling UK" seems simply misleading now CTC has thrown away its number one position and let BC overtake it in member numbers, has cut its membership services and would rather impose a new brand instead of involve its remaining members in the decision. Or maybe it's accurate and reflects Council/NO thinking "We Are Cycling UK... and the rest of you are just plebs on bikes"?
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Bazza55 » 25 Mar 2016, 10:35pm

To quote a once popular song by Bananarama "It aint what you do it's the way that you do it" The way that they 'did it' gives us all an insight into the way things will be done in future at Cycling UK or whatever they change the name of this once great club next time round if unsuccessful. Democracy and accountability are two things we expect with the CTC. How much of this is apparent in British Cycling to it's members? Very little. CTC are aware of this and see Democracy and Accountability as a burden holding them back from challenging their closest rival BC. Gone is the friendly, helpful with touring, technical advice for all members, members who are proud to promote and help this fine traditional institution, by giving time, money, skills and other personal assets. What you have now is a ruthless business, in the guise of a charity, with a handsomely paid CEO with goodness knows what bonuses and perks. He and the carefully controlled Council will tell you what is best don't waste your time questioning or objecting, because we are in control now and you are wasting your time. Cycling UK is now virtually a dictatorship and they have done all this without the support of many of their productive members, worse still, they tried to keep it all a secret until it was too late to do anything about it. Ever felt like a mushroom?

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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 26 Mar 2016, 6:52am

Bazza55 wrote:To quote a once popular song by Bananarama "It aint what you do it's the way that you do it" The way that they 'did it' gives us all an insight into the way things will be done in future at Cycling UK or whatever they change the name of this once great club next time round if unsuccessful. Democracy and accountability are two things we expect with the CTC. How much of this is apparent in British Cycling to it's members? Very little. CTC are aware of this and see Democracy and Accountability as a burden holding them back from challenging their closest rival BC. Gone is the friendly, helpful with touring, technical advice for all members, members who are proud to promote and help this fine traditional institution, by giving time, money, skills and other personal assets. What you have now is a ruthless business, in the guise of a charity, with a handsomely paid CEO with goodness knows what bonuses and perks. He and the carefully controlled Council will tell you what is best don't waste your time questioning or objecting, because we are in control now and you are wasting your time. Cycling UK is now virtually a dictatorship and they have done all this without the support of many of their productive members, worse still, they tried to keep it all a secret until it was too late to do anything about it. Ever felt like a mushroom?
. You are correct on all points. It does disappoint me that some on the council are still in denial.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
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Labrat
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Labrat » 26 Mar 2016, 12:38pm

Bazza55 wrote:To quote a once popular song by Bananarama "It aint what you do it's the way that you do it" The way that they 'did it' gives us all an insight into the way things will be done in future at Cycling UK or whatever they change the name of this once great club next time round if unsuccessful. Democracy and accountability are two things we expect with the CTC



Hmm, as an alternative point of view, Democracy doesn't mean having a referendum every five minutes - from what I have been able to pick up amongst Philips random and unsorted reams of cut and paste, Council (our elected representatives) have been fully aware of the possibility of rebranding for a long time and nobody on council (including Philip when he was serving) felt at any time in that process that this needed to go out to everyone for a vote. Subsequently, the elected Council seemingly voted 15:1 in favour of rebranding - I fail to see how that qualifies as either undemocratic or unaccountable.


Philip Benstead wrote: You are correct on all points. It does disappoint me that some on the council are still in denial.


Maybe they just disagree with you?

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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Philip Benstead » 26 Mar 2016, 1:15pm

Labrat wrote:
Bazza55 wrote:To quote a once popular song by Bananarama "It aint what you do it's the way that you do it" The way that they 'did it' gives us all an insight into the way things will be done in future at Cycling UK or whatever they change the name of this once great club next time round if unsuccessful. Democracy and accountability are two things we expect with the CTC



Hmm, as an alternative point of view, Democracy doesn't mean having a referendum every five minutes - from what I have been able to pick up amongst Philips random and unsorted reams of cut and paste, Council (our elected representatives) have been fully aware of the possibility of rebranding for a long time and nobody on council (including Philip when he was serving) felt at any time in that process that this needed to go out to everyone for a vote. Subsequently, the elected Council seemingly voted 15:1 in favour of rebranding - I fail to see how that qualifies as either undemocratic or unaccountable.


Philip Benstead wrote: You are correct on all points. It does disappoint me that some on the council are still in denial.


Maybe they just disagree with you?
not according to long serving councillors. They sit there speechless and vote like clones. The council as been lead by the nose by consultants mates of the CEO
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
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Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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Bazza55
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Bazza55 » 26 Mar 2016, 1:33pm

Rebranding is a major issue, not only should they have put this to a full ballot, tbey didn't even scope the members properly before implementing. They claim they contacted 2,000 people, less than half of these were current members. They are determined to impose these changes whether you agree with them or not. Where was the membership ballot to accept the new tacky logo? Oh sorry, we decided this for you, mushrooms.

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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Barred1 » 26 Mar 2016, 2:21pm

Bazza55 wrote:Rebranding is a major issue, not only should they have put this to a full ballot, tbey didn't even scope the members properly before implementing. They claim they contacted 2,000 people, less than half of these were current members. They are determined to impose these changes whether you agree with them or not. Where was the membership ballot to accept the new tacky logo? Oh sorry, we decided this for you, mushrooms.


The scores on the doors are for specific CTC membership are

MGs - asked 112 - responded 57
RTRs - asked 370 - responded 149 (it's probable that there's an overlap/duplication with responses from RTR & MGs being the same respondent)

Total asked 482 - responded 206

Other classes are : affiliated clubs (not many), non-members(about 50%), "key external stakeholders" and "inclusive cycling centres" whatever the last two might be??


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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby gaz » 26 Mar 2016, 4:07pm

Barred1 wrote:...
The scores on the doors are for specific CTC membership are
...

Only those scores on the doors are nothing to do with the rebrand, they relate to the December 2015 governance survey: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=78803&p=989708&#p989695.
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Barred1
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Re: Communication with CTC Councillors

Postby Barred1 » 26 Mar 2016, 5:05pm

gaz wrote:
Barred1 wrote:...
The scores on the doors are for specific CTC membership are
...

Only those scores on the doors are nothing to do with the rebrand, they relate to the December 2015 governance survey: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=78803&p=989708&#p989695.


The presentation is entitled "Brand Essence" and is all about the analysis of perceptions and then what the brand means together with its positioning/feel/mission etc.

No mention of "governance" - Mr Benstead's post that you quote has the figures from Brand Essence but the questions he lists (which he says are from December 2015) are not those that would, or even could, have produced the results described in the presentation - the research for Brand Essence was carried out in August 2015.

So - IT IS all about the brand (including a strange mix of random library pictures) - the end of the presentation has various administrative "next steps" with approval sought on 17th October 2015 and the main item to then get on with is "Development of brand name and visual identities" (the details then show a timeline for design etc)


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