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Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 6:45am
by Philip Benstead
Why didn’t CTC do this?


Cycling minister ‘blown away’ by Danish infrastructure after Copenhagen visit (video)
Read more at
Instead of wasting your money and their time on rebranding we should be doing this


http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... deo-195294

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 9:20am
by gaz
CTC did this, February 2016. Paul Tuohy and Robert Goodwill at the announcement of £500,000 funding for this year's Big Bike Revival.

Image

Why not celebrate the good work CTC does do rather than criticise it?

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 2:59pm
by Si
...why didn't the CTC do it? Dunno but you can bet that if they had then there would be all sorts of posts criticising them for wasting money and effort on jollies for the lads. It's just another situation where no matter what the CTC do someone will find a way of holding it against them.

FWIW, when he came to visit our group he smiled for the cameras, metaphorically kissed the babies, ignored everything that was said to him and left us wondering why we bothered. Let us hope that having someone with the national fame and eloquence of CB with him might have made more of an impression on him this time.

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 3:45pm
by merseymouth
Hi All, Are my eyes deceiving me or is Paul Tuohy wearing one of the nice old silver "Winged Wheel" badges when meeting Robert Goodwill?
If so it is somewhat hypocritical considering the turmoil he is causing at present! TTFN MM

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 3:56pm
by Si
merseymouth wrote:Hi All, Are my eyes deceiving me or is Paul Tuohy wearing one of the nice old silver "Winged Wheel" badges when meeting Robert Goodwill?
If so it is somewhat hypocritical considering the turmoil he is causing at present! TTFN MM


How is it hypocritical to do something that he has said is OK to do ? No one has said that the winged wheel is being gotten rid of. In fact they are looking at new ways of using it to remindpeople of the CTC's heritage.

Also, it should be noted that amongst PT's 'qualities' time travel is not one that he has yet mastered to the best of my knowledge, so even if the winged wheel was being dropped (which it ain't) I don't think that he would have taken a photo of himself after the April 2016 rebrand happens and then time-travelled it back to Feb just so that he could get away with wearing a winged wheel. :lol:

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 7:02pm
by merseymouth
Hello Si, The hypocrisy is because the management have been marginailizing the heritage of the CTC for trendy acceptance. Even the masthead on this forum is a poor reflection of what the CTC has in it's history, which should guide the direction for the future, but all I see is corporate style bleating.
Sloppy thinking combine with sloppy words have got us in the mess we find ourselves in, trying to be trendy?
The CTC willnot be keeping me on two wheels, but I thought it would try to keep us on any number of wheels - un-powered!
I currently wear a 1915 version of the membership badge, far better than the "Blue & Yellow Horror".
TTFN MM

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 26 Mar 2016, 12:43pm
by Labrat
merseymouth wrote: a poor reflection of what the CTC has in it's history, which should guide the direction for the future,

Sounds like the type of thing the UCI would say ;)

It also reminds me of many of the things I've seen commented by members over the years - that CTC as a 'club' should not represent mountain biking, that CTC should have no role representing utility and commuting cyclists because it took effort away from the core 'club' priorities - that of looking after touring cyclists rather than all cyclists

if thats the type of 'history' that should guide the direction for the future, then I for one think its better off cast into the dustbin.

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 26 Mar 2016, 8:43pm
by PH
The cycling minister was that blown away, he's done the same to the budget. Taken the £450 million a year recommended by the cross-party inquiry and reduced it to £300 million over 5 years. Osbourne will be blown away as well. Roger Geffen thinks at this rate we'll reach Dutch levels by the start of the 23rd century, I'm blown away.
Waste of time and effort, I'm glad it was BCs rather than CTCs.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 722048.ece

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 11:23am
by gaz
merseymouth wrote:... a poor reflection of what the CTC has in it's history, which should guide the direction for the future, ...

:idea: Let's draw on out history.

BCT.jpeg
Heritage logo
BCT.jpeg (42.24 KiB) Viewed 8277 times

Then update it to reflect a populist branding choice to guide our future direction.

We are Bikey McBikeface. :mrgreen:

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 12:38pm
by Si
merseymouth wrote:Hello Si, The hypocrisy is because the management have been marginailizing the heritage of the CTC for trendy acceptance. Even the masthead on this forum is a poor reflection of what the CTC has in it's history, which should guide the direction for the future, but all I see is corporate style bleating.
Sloppy thinking combine with sloppy words have got us in the mess we find ourselves in, trying to be trendy?
The CTC willnot be keeping me on two wheels, but I thought it would try to keep us on any number of wheels - un-powered!
I currently wear a 1915 version of the membership badge, far better than the "Blue & Yellow Horror".
TTFN MM


You complaint that the heritage is marginalised, but when the CEO promotes the heritage you complain.

The blue and yellow badge derivatives have been around a while and are now part of CTC's heritage. For someone who wants to promote heritage surely you should be all in favour of their use?

If we look back over the real history of the CTC (rather than the imagined golden days of cycle touring) does the CTC have a tradition of embracing the new and changing to reflect the world around it, or is it its conservatism that we would like to preserve?

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 2:11pm
by Philip Benstead
Si wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Hello Si, The hypocrisy is because the management have been marginailizing the heritage of the CTC for trendy acceptance. Even the masthead on this forum is a poor reflection of what the CTC has in it's history, which should guide the direction for the future, but all I see is corporate style bleating.
Sloppy thinking combine with sloppy words have got us in the mess we find ourselves in, trying to be trendy?
The CTC willnot be keeping me on two wheels, but I thought it would try to keep us on any number of wheels - un-powered!
I currently wear a 1915 version of the membership badge, far better than the "Blue & Yellow Horror".
TTFN MM


You complaint that the heritage is marginalised, but when the CEO promotes the heritage you complain.

The blue and yellow badge derivatives have been around a while and are now part of CTC's heritage. For someone who wants to promote heritage surely you should be all in favour of their use?

If we look back over the real history of the CTC (rather than the imagined golden days of cycle touring) does the CTC have a tradition of embracing the new and changing to reflect the world around it, or is it its conservatism that we would like to preserve?
my view is that the ctc ha and some on the council are masquerading in their embrace of heritage. The thing that they once made grate play was the ctc being a democratic membership lead organization, it was stated may times in business plans/strategy documents, unfortunately these documents lack focus and were much too long. What we have now is a body of people who have moved the other way they imho by their actions will destroy the cultural framework that bines the ctc together.

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 3:24pm
by Si
my view is that the ctc ha and some on the council are masquerading in their embrace of heritage.


So, you are suggesting that we have to rigidly adhere to the notion of conservation of heritage just because it is heritage and for no other reason? What would be the point of that other than driving the ctc into the ground by preventing it from evolving? Heritage is a tool to be used to promote the ctc's objectives. Whether someone on council has a little room at the back of their house adorned with CTC memorabilia of the 1890s, where they go to pray every day, is irrelevant. It's getting bums on saddles that matters, and if heritage can be used to do that then it makes little difference if it is some sort of masquerade or not.

And let's face it, most of those opposing the new branding are looking at the past through rose tinted glasses, and as such could be equally guilty of a masquerade. For instance, look at the ctc in the 1970s and 80s, back when it was wall to wall winged wheels and touring bikes, and none of those annoying MTBers and hipsters and fakengers and the like....can we honestly say that it was progressive, forward looking and bolstering cycling in the UK through its rich pageant of heritage? Or was that when the reputation for inward looking cliques of beardy plus-fours started to develop and the family ethos started to erode as it did virtually nothing new to attract kids?

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 3:49pm
by Philip Benstead
Si wrote:
my view is that the ctc ha and some on the council are masquerading in their embrace of heritage.


So, you are suggesting that we have to rigidly adhere to the notion of conservation of heritage just because it is heritage and for no other reason? What would be the point of that other than driving the ctc into the ground by preventing it from evolving? Heritage is a tool to be used to promote the ctc's objectives. Whether someone on council has a little room at the back of their house adorned with CTC memorabilia of the 1890s, where they go to pray every day, is irrelevant. It's getting bums on saddles that matters, and if heritage can be used to do that then it makes little difference if it is some sort of masquerade or not.

And let's face it, most of those opposing the new branding are looking at the past through rose tinted glasses, and as such could be equally guilty of a masquerade. For instance, look at the ctc in the 1970s and 80s, back when it was wall to wall winged wheels and touring bikes, and none of those annoying MTBers and hipsters and fakengers and the like....can we honestly say that it was progressive, forward looking and bolstering cycling in the UK through its rich pageant of heritage? Or was that when the reputation for inward looking cliques of beardy plus-fours started to develop and the family ethos started to erode as it did virtually nothing new to attract kids?
if you look on Facebook I have said I have been told by a long serving councillor the business case has not been made. The presentation made by campfire look good but it was mother and Apple pie. In second and third reading the figures do not add up and were not subjected to rigorous analysis. So I think the council is being driven by pt. We will loses the framework that nine the ctc together.

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 4:32pm
by gaz
Philip benstead wrote:... if you look on Facebook I have said I have been told by a long serving councillor the business case has not been made. ...

According to the published figures 15 Councillors to whom the business case was presented were satisfied that it had been made, 1 was not.

Re: Why didn’t CTC do this?

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 4:36pm
by Philip Benstead
gaz wrote:
Philip benstead wrote:... if you look on Facebook I have said I have been told by a long serving councillor the business case has not been made. ...

According to the published figures 15 Councillors to whom the business case was presented were satisfied that it had been made, 1 was not.
the councillor who said that to me was not the one who voted against. You must remember the minutes of council do not give the true feeling of the councillor s. Some have been worn down by pt cabal