Name Change

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
PH
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Re: Name Change

Postby PH » 10 Apr 2016, 11:46pm

Psamathe wrote:For example, if CUK have a national campaign to get people cycling and they propose "Contact your local CUK group" - MGs who have stuck to CTC branding would not benefit. However same campaign phrased as "You can get help starting cycling from your local CTC group" and they would not be disadvantaged. They could do the "contact your local CUK group or your local CTC group (same organisation) but it would complicate things and dilute the message - do members of the public seek out a CUK group or a CTC group ?
Ian

You seem to be coming up with problems where none exist, I thought we had enough already. A member group or affiliated club can be a part of Cycling UK whatever they're called, in exactly the same way as they were a part of CTC The National Cycling Charity regardless of their name.
Here's how my MG appears on the new Cycling UK website;
http://www.cyclinguk.org/local-groups/derby-and-burton

Without doing anything to our website, it'll already be on the first page of a search with the words "Cycling" and "Derby" (or "Burton") After the website's key words have been tweaked it'll be in the first few hits of any such search. And top of the page when searching "Cycling UK Derby" it won't need a name change to make that happen.

In reality, local groups organise their own promotion and publicity, they can and do use something happening nationally (Bike Week for example) but the way they do it has always been left to them and I can't see that changing.
I don't know where your ideas about member groups comes from, are you involved with one? Maybe some are different to those I know, I'm always interested to learn how different groups operate.

PH
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Re: Name Change

Postby PH » 10 Apr 2016, 11:58pm

gaz wrote: It will succesfully promote cycling through groups that share its brand name (MGs), groups that use the CTC brand (MGs) and groups that use other brands (AGs).

And just to confuse, there's some member groups that don't have CTC in the name...

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gaz
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Re: Name Change

Postby gaz » 11 Apr 2016, 12:04am

You're right, it confuses me. Probably why they did it :wink: .

Fortunately it won't confuse anyone using the Cycling UK website to find a local group (whatever their name/affiliation) to ride with.
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Psamathe
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Re: Name Change

Postby Psamathe » 11 Apr 2016, 8:49am

To my mind, a clean and simple message makes things easier and thus more likely that people will respond. Confuse it a bit and people are more likely to just not get round to it. Plus, I suspect the public would be a bit concerned about ending-up with a "lycra on, head down" group most people have seen hammering round roads at speed in big groups (it was a concern when I started cycling and was looking around for groups to join) - so if you are trying to persuade beginners to give it a go the message needs to be presented very clearly.

However, my impression is that MGs don't actually provide the sort of rides that beginners would be interested in (or would risk putting them off if they did go on one). Certainly for the MG I used to go to, their rides would have been unsuited to somebody starting cycling (though I never went on one, the distances would be too far for most people starting).

The main reason for the split structure would be to separate functions - you gain without losing. The organisers have not really come-up with a structure, but have only considered spin and PR. Split into the two divisions and you can properly keep what you have and improve the focus on campaigning (though you would need a better name and branding/logo).

Ian

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mjr
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Re: Name Change

Postby mjr » 11 Apr 2016, 11:33am

Psamathe wrote:I'd suspect a fair amount of CUK's campaigning will not involve MGs (e.g. Road Justice, Boxed bikes crossing through tunnel, PCC elections, others can probably come up with more/better examples).

Campaigning is meant to involve local CTC members and CTC committed to "enhance its support for local cycle campaigning and advocacy" in its 2011 agreement with Cyclenation, although I'm not aware of any MGs which have started campaigning as a result. And as far as I know, CTC's non-MG local campaigner network (often still known as right-to-ride) has continued to wither away as its activists have moved away, moved on or passed on.

In other words, I share the suspicion that MGs won't be involved in campaigns, but that seems like a mistake and not what CTC said it would do.
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Re: Name Change

Postby jochta » 11 Apr 2016, 1:37pm

Psamathe wrote:However, my impression is that MGs don't actually provide the sort of rides that beginners would be interested in (or would risk putting them off if they did go on one). Certainly for the MG I used to go to, their rides would have been unsuited to somebody starting cycling (though I never went on one, the distances would be too far for most people starting).


Not our member group (http://www.ctcwantage.org.uk/index.php). We deliberately target rides at new riders or riders taking up cycling again. We also have publicity events to actively encourage new/inexperienced riders to participate.

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Re: Name Change

Postby admin » 11 Apr 2016, 2:59pm

mjr wrote:In other words, I share the suspicion that MGs won't be involved in campaigns, but that seems like a mistake and not what CTC said it would do.


In my experience the types of people who fork out to become CTC members and make the effort to turn up for local group rides tend to be "keen cyclists". As such they are less worried by road conditions than the majority of ordinary people. Local campaign groups here have very limited overlaps in membership with CTC member groups.

In fact getting people to campaign is hard: either they're ordinary people who think that cyclist is "just too dangerous" and always will be, or they're "cyclists" who manage OK without needing change. There aren't many people who want to ride their bikes and can see that conditions could be so much better...

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Re: Name Change

Postby Bez » 11 Apr 2016, 3:08pm

spanner1718 wrote:Hujev is right it's about heritage at the end of the day, the Automobile Association wouldn't change its name to Car Club just because its more diverse would they?


No, because it's not "more diverse", is it? It's just a synonym. It's not even close to analogous.

What if the British Racing Drivers' Club had evolved to the point where it was campaigning for driving to be accessible to all and sundry? Would you think that campaigns for car parks, or for car access to residential streets, would be best supported by an organisation which went by the name "BDRC" and then had to explain that it actually stood for something to do with racing drivers, and then had to explain that actually the racing drivers bit was anachronistic, but yes they did have a bunch of racing drivers as members, and yes the membership was largely interested in racing driving, but no the organisation itself didn't think racing driving was relevant to building a car park… and so on…

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mjr
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Re: Name Change

Postby mjr » 11 Apr 2016, 5:22pm

admin wrote:In fact getting people to campaign is hard: either they're ordinary people who think that cyclist is "just too dangerous" and always will be, or they're "cyclists" who manage OK without needing change. There aren't many people who want to ride their bikes and can see that conditions could be so much better...

I disagree about how many current bike riders can see that conditions could be so much better (maybe it's our greater proximity, influences and topographical similarities to the Netherlands?) but I agree that getting people to campaign is hard. As far as I can tell, people feel deterred by the glacial pace of change (aka "what's the point as nothing ever changes" because we tend to be poor at celebrating our small victories, variously overhyping them or not reporting them), the jargon-filled replies that they get (seriously - a few politicians should take a remedial English course) and just a general nervousness that they don't know enough about what might be thrown at them if they dare to stick their head about the parapet. I am often grateful that I'm part of a group which has many who are both keen cyclists and good campaigners.
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Bicycler
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Re: Name Change

Postby Bicycler » 12 Apr 2016, 2:33pm

Bez wrote:What if the British Racing Drivers' Club had evolved to the point where it was campaigning for driving to be accessible to all and sundry? Would you think that campaigns for car parks, or for car access to residential streets, would be best supported by an organisation which went by the name "BDRC" and then had to explain that it actually stood for something to do with racing drivers, and then had to explain that actually the racing drivers bit was anachronistic, but yes they did have a bunch of racing drivers as members, and yes the membership was largely interested in racing driving, but no the organisation itself didn't think racing driving was relevant to building a car park… and so on…

If we were positioning ourselves as the Cyclists' Touring Club you'd have a point that confusion could result but, and I've repeated this far too often, that hasn't been the trading name for nearly 20 years. Prior to this month the CTC was branded "CTC - The National Cycling Charity" which offered a clear indication of what the club does. I never found it a particular hardship on the (very few) occasions when somebody asked what the initials stood for to say "Cyclists' Touring Club, it's a historic name, they represent all cyclists." If only the difference between the synonymous "Cycling UK" and "British Cycling" (the latter of which people have actually heard of) were so readily apparent and easily explainable to the layman.

Now, I read your article and understand the argument that it might be better to have an organisation seen to be promoting "cycling" rather than "cyclists". I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of that problematic apostrophe (even in the 19th Century they toyed with "Cycle Touring Club" so as to avoid it). Unfortunately, they have spectacularly missed these opportunities in the rebrand by using the strapline "The Cyclists' Champion". Even if we were to accept the arguments for change, the actual rebrand chosen seems appallingly ill thought out.

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Re: Name Change

Postby JohnW » 13 Apr 2016, 8:09pm

PH wrote:
..........Here's how my MG appears on the new Cycling UK website;
http://www.cyclinguk.org/local-groups/derby-and-burton

.


I think that's very well done - and I note with some pleasure that you've incorporated the winged wheel. Very good.

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Re: Name Change

Postby Bicycler » 13 Apr 2016, 11:41pm

To give them credit, it's Cycling UK which has included the Winged Wheel. It's at the bottom of every page on the website http://www.cyclinguk.org , including the club pages it hosts for member groups.

To give PH's group back some of the credit I've just taken from them, their actual club website http://www.derbyctc.org.uk/ has a prominent and glorious looking Winged Wheel :D

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Re: Name Change

Postby robgul » 14 Apr 2016, 7:52am

Bicycler wrote:To give them credit, it's Cycling UK which has included the Winged Wheel. It's at the bottom of every page on the website http://www.cyclinguk.org , including the club pages it hosts for member groups.

To give PH's group back some of the credit I've just taken from them, their actual club website http://www.derbyctc.org.uk/ has a prominent and glorious looking Winged Wheel :D


The club website picture montages are great and give a real flavour of the riders and rides ... just a shame that the pics all seem to have been taken in the winter with everyone in longs and jackets! (I didn't do a helmet count :twisted: )

Rob

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Re: Name Change

Postby Paulatic » 14 Apr 2016, 8:40am

The leaves were on the trees , just a good summers day
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Re: Name Change

Postby PH » 14 Apr 2016, 12:35pm

Thank you all for the comments, I look after the website and it's very much an amateur and ongoing project.