The slippery slope continues

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
Psamathe
Posts: 10423
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Psamathe » 7 Apr 2016, 10:26pm

Si wrote:I have say (as a BC employee!) I am flummoxed as to why people are considering joining BC when it is even further away from the idolised golden age of the CTC that they are mourning, than CyclingUK is.....?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of joining BC...if it does what you need it to do then go for it...but all the things people are complaining that the CTC is losing...BC doesn't do them!

For me it is a deeper issue than specific decisions. I left CTC after the disastrous management handling when CJ was made redundant. All organisations will at some time make decisions that different individuals will not agree with. But for an organisation to have a (successful) future it needs to be at least competently managed. And the total mismanagement of CJ's redundancy game me a strong indication of the lack of competence of the management of the organisation.

And, although I think the re-brand terrible, it is more the way it has been handled giving further indications that management it not of the calibre to take such an organisation forward. The failure to engage with membership. CTC is not like a private company releasing a new product that needs to be kept secret to stop competitors taking counter moves. Their reaction to the poll. The CEO's personal attack posted online against Mr. Benstead. Too many indications that the management or the organisation is not of adequate calibre to achieve what people would expect.

Ian

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15020
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Si » 7 Apr 2016, 10:28pm

Psamathe wrote:
Si wrote:I have say (as a BC employee!) I am flummoxed as to why people are considering joining BC when it is even further away from the idolised golden age of the CTC that they are mourning, than CyclingUK is.....?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of joining BC...if it does what you need it to do then go for it...but all the things people are complaining that the CTC is losing...BC doesn't do them!

For me it is a deeper issue than specific decisions. I left CTC after the disastrous management handling when CJ was made redundant. All organisations will at some time make decisions that different individuals will not agree with. But for an organisation to have a (successful) future it needs to be at least competently managed. And the total mismanagement of CJ's redundancy game me a strong indication of the lack of competence of the management of the organisation.

And, although I think the re-brand terrible, it is more the way it has been handled giving further indications that management it not of the calibre to take such an organisation forward. The failure to engage with membership. CTC is not like a private company releasing a new product that needs to be kept secret to stop competitors taking counter moves. Their reaction to the poll. The CEO's personal attack posted online against Mr. Benstead. Too many indications that the management or the organisation is not of adequate calibre to achieve what people would expect.

Ian


That doesn't really answer the question though.....you've just stated why you have left the CTC, not why you would consider joining BC.

seph
Posts: 119
Joined: 3 Sep 2010, 8:22pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby seph » 8 Apr 2016, 1:18am

Insurance and legal cover, plus a feeling that you are supporting cycling. You could get this from BC or CUK, but after having the CTC taken away, you may prefer to give your money to BC

Psamathe
Posts: 10423
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Psamathe » 8 Apr 2016, 9:12am

Si wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
Si wrote:I have say (as a BC employee!) I am flummoxed as to why people are considering joining BC when it is even further away from the idolised golden age of the CTC that they are mourning, than CyclingUK is.....?

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of joining BC...if it does what you need it to do then go for it...but all the things people are complaining that the CTC is losing...BC doesn't do them!

For me it is a deeper issue than specific decisions. I left CTC after the disastrous management handling when CJ was made redundant. All organisations will at some time make decisions that different individuals will not agree with. But for an organisation to have a (successful) future it needs to be at least competently managed. And the total mismanagement of CJ's redundancy game me a strong indication of the lack of competence of the management of the organisation.

And, although I think the re-brand terrible, it is more the way it has been handled giving further indications that management it not of the calibre to take such an organisation forward. The failure to engage with membership. CTC is not like a private company releasing a new product that needs to be kept secret to stop competitors taking counter moves. Their reaction to the poll. The CEO's personal attack posted online against Mr. Benstead. Too many indications that the management or the organisation is not of adequate calibre to achieve what people would expect.

Ian


That doesn't really answer the question though.....you've just stated why you have left the CTC, not why you would consider joining BC.

Because something in me drives me to join organisations supporting activities/sports I participate in. It is something I cannot easily explain, but maybe that if I spend time doing something I enjoy I feel I should support the activity in a broader sense (broader than my own participation). Maybe Sustrans would be a better option (if you can even "join" Sustrans). But it is somehow not about giving money, but being part of a club/organisation. Having some sort of feeling that I am participating in a broader sense than just my e.g. going out cycling or going out for a sail, etc.

Probably does not explain well, maybe because, whilst I feel joining such organisations is important, even I find it hard to know exactly why. It is something I have always done for all sorts of different activities (right back to family memberships when I was a child).

Ian

User avatar
honesty
Posts: 2515
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 3:33pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby honesty » 8 Apr 2016, 9:18am

i dont know why people are talking about joining BC over say AudaxUK either. The latter would seem to be the more logical place for people to gravitate to.

User avatar
honesty
Posts: 2515
Joined: 16 Mar 2012, 3:33pm
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby honesty » 8 Apr 2016, 9:31am

Having said that, I've just looked at A.UK and their insurance only covers you during events, so not complete TP cover.

Karen Sutton
Posts: 608
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:18pm
Location: Greater Manchester

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Karen Sutton » 8 Apr 2016, 10:34am

If all you need is a club to ride with and third party insurance you could do both independently of each other. That is if you have an independent (not CTC group) near you.

For example I am probably joining a local independent touring/leisure rides club. It will cost me £2 per year plus £1 for each ride I participate in, or £20 for a year's unlimited rides. I have third party insurance with my household insurance. The club fees are to cover website charges, BC affiliation costs, etc. I would have the option to join BC as an affiliated member but probably won't.

By the way Tandem Club membership is £10 per year and includes TP insurance. They run in a similar way to the way the Cyclists' Touring Club used to.

User avatar
mjr
Posts: 13761
Joined: 20 Jun 2011, 7:06pm
Location: Norfolk or Somerset, mostly
Contact:

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby mjr » 8 Apr 2016, 11:40am

Iand wrote:I guess the bottom line for me is
Where do I get 3rd party insurance and the legal backup that has always been a big selling point for me.
The rest of it has largely become an irrelevance, ie a magazine that is nearly always " read " in five minutes, few local groups, no rally etc.

Home insurance optional add-ons are usually the cheapest way to get third party and legal cover for everyone in a household, but London Cycling Campaign arrange http://lcc.org.uk/pages/third-party-liability-insurance is £9.50/person/year and it's open to all (this is very useful for other cyclenation groups IMO).

The Tandem Club is also good. At least four of my in-laws have been involved in recent years in various ways :cool: www.tandem-club.org.uk
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
All the above is CC-By-SA and no other implied copyright license to Cycle magazine.

bam
Posts: 17
Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 7:21pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby bam » 8 Apr 2016, 12:09pm

Knew nothing about this until the mag came out. Membership cancelled and joined cycling ireland even though they dont represent my kind of cycling. Dont like the new name, it is also political. Pity the direct debit came out on 1st april.

Psamathe
Posts: 10423
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Psamathe » 8 Apr 2016, 1:02pm

bam wrote:Knew nothing about this until the mag came out. Membership cancelled and joined cycling ireland even though they dont represent my kind of cycling. Dont like the new name, it is also political. Pity the direct debit came out on 1st april.

People have been getting refunds on cancelling their membership. I saw one case where there was an exchange of e-mails but most seem ti be getting a pro-rata refund.

I'd suspect you have an even stronger case as you joined the CTC and, in practice they changed (without asking you).

Ian

bam
Posts: 17
Joined: 17 Sep 2012, 7:21pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby bam » 8 Apr 2016, 1:31pm

Psamathe wrote:
bam wrote:Knew nothing about this until the mag came out. Membership cancelled and joined cycling ireland even though they dont represent my kind of cycling. Dont like the new name, it is also political. Pity the direct debit came out on 1st april.

People have been getting refunds on cancelling their membership. I saw one case where there was an exchange of e-mails but most seem ti be getting a pro-rata refund.

I'd suspect you have an even stronger case as you joined the CTC and, in practice they changed (without asking you).

Ian

That wasn't offered to me..they can have it, I'll let it run this year. Cycling Ireland is 26 quid which includes personal accident. So if Im knocked down this year I'll be claiming twice!

Richard Fairhurst
Posts: 1396
Joined: 2 Mar 2008, 4:57pm
Location: Charlbury, Oxfordshire

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Richard Fairhurst » 8 Apr 2016, 2:18pm

Psamathe wrote:Because something in me drives me to join organisations supporting activities/sports I participate in. It is something I cannot easily explain, but maybe that if I spend time doing something I enjoy I feel I should support the activity in a broader sense (broader than my own participation). Maybe Sustrans would be a better option (if you can even "join" Sustrans). But it is somehow not about giving money, but being part of a club/organisation. Having some sort of feeling that I am participating in a broader sense than just my e.g. going out cycling or going out for a sail, etc.


Sure - I can understand that.

Sustrans doesn't have a formal membership scheme - you can sign up as a supporter (http://www.sustrans.org.uk/support-us/d ... r-benefits) but it's a one-way relationship primarily based around £ signs, rather than a membership scheme where you can vote.

On the other hand, I volunteer as a Sustrans ranger and would recommend it. If you're prepared to put the hours in you can get terrific results - the astonishing Two Tunnels project in Bath was driven forward by Sustrans rangers (inter alia); on a more modest scale, round here, we got a new 60-mile route signposted. I do recognise that Sustrans isn't everyone's cup of tea, and the organisation isn't having an easy time at the moment with the paucity of funding, but if you have some sympathy with it then do look into rangering.
cycle.travel - maps, journey-planner, route guides and city guides

User avatar
Si
Moderator
Posts: 15020
Joined: 5 Jan 2007, 7:37pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Si » 8 Apr 2016, 2:40pm

Because something in me drives me to join organisations supporting activities/sports I participate in. It is something I cannot easily explain


Makes perfect sense to me (talking as an inveterate joiner myself). But as others have said, I think that there may be better options for the lover of touring cycling. For instance some combination of Robgul's new club, Audax, the Fell Club, the Clarion(?), the Rough Stuff Fellowship, etc etc depending upon your exact requirements. Certain of these do seem to have much more of a close, touring club, community feel than BC at the moment!

Psamathe
Posts: 10423
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Psamathe » 8 Apr 2016, 2:59pm

Richard Fairhurst wrote:... On the other hand, I volunteer as a Sustrans ranger and would recommend it. If you're prepared to put the hours in you can get terrific results....

I did consider that a year or so ago. Unfortunately the nearest Sustrans cycle paths are a bit too far to be practical. I could join and try and start to get some nearer me incorporated but that would be quite long term and cycle routes are probably not established on the basis of where there are nearby volunteers (not a good principle for cycle network design).

Ian

Psamathe
Posts: 10423
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: The slippery slope continues

Postby Psamathe » 8 Apr 2016, 3:01pm

Si wrote:
Because something in me drives me to join organisations supporting activities/sports I participate in. It is something I cannot easily explain

...I think that there may be better options for the lover of touring cycling. For instance some combination of Robgul's new club...

Certainly hopeful and "expressed interest" and waiting until the "near future" to see what they set-up.

Ian