Cycling UK Forum

If that is really the case and the demand is there for the traditional CTC and its roots, which I don't want to loose from the Club, perhaps those that care should set up an alternative?

I would have thought it could be done on the web, it wouldn't be quite the same but if the will is there I'm sure it would be possible.

Caulkheader wrote:If that is really the case and the demand is there for the traditional CTC and its roots, which I don't want to loose from the Club, perhaps those that care should set up an alternative?

I would have thought it could be done on the web, it wouldn't be quite the same but if the will is there I'm sure it would be possible.

Where have you been? - see sig line and viewtopic.php?f=16&t=103688

Rob

Cheers ! Sorry but I missed that!

Caulkheader wrote:Cheers ! Sorry but I missed that!

... about 400 others didn't and have registered an interest

Rob

al_yrpal wrote:But… its no longer a club, its a charity working for everyone, not specifically for members. You are no longer members, you are supporters funding a charity thats mission is to get more people cycling and bashing its head on a brick wall as far as cycling infrastructure improvement is concerned - there is no money.The Council have signalled that touring is an insignificant aspect of cycling so the CTC name has been dumped . Their current preoccupation is to get the last few years VAT back so they can fund salary packages for their new paid executives whose task is to get more money for cycle campaigning.

Al

Yes, a thousand times yes.
I don't know why these facts need to be constantly repeated. Is there so much denial about the demise of the club? Or did so many people really not understand the conversion to a charity?
Even if you disagree with the sentiments of the final sentence above then the rest holds as fact.


I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my iPad using hovercraft full of eels.

millimole wrote:[

Al

Yes, a thousand times yes.
I don't know why these facts need to be constantly repeated. Is there so much denial about the demise of the club? Or did so many people really not understand the conversion to a charity?

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my iPad using hovercraft full of eels.[/quote]
With hindsight I certainly didn't understand the full consequences of converting to a charity. I seem to recall it being sold as the "way forward" the "future". I naively thought those in charge of the club knew what was best for the club.
We all live and learn.

The juxtaposition of

Even if you disagree with the sentiments of the final sentence above then the rest holds as fact.

with the content of that post:

Their current preoccupation is to get the last few years VAT back so they can fund salary packages for their new paid executives

is, in my opinion at least, quite telling. It's not a "fact", it's an opinion about motivations.

There's nothing wrong per se with basing opposition on an emotional appeal against imputed motivation, but a fact it is not.

I don't see why the change to charitable status meant an inevitable and execrable rebrand. You couldn't imagine the RAC or AA ditching its heritage and brand awareness in favour of something instantly forgettable and cringe inducing.

As it stands it competes with British Cycling and risks losing its credibility built on decades of campaigning and activity.

Paulatic wrote:With hindsight I certainly didn't understand the full consequences of converting to a charity. I seem to recall it being sold as the "way forward" the "future". I naively thought those in charge of the club knew what was best for the club.
We all live and learn.

And a club should have been encouraging its members to learn, but one of the first steps in privatising an organisation is to cut member democratic development/education back to as little as the members will let you get away with. Then after a few years, some forgetting and some churn among the membership, the leaders can keep appealing to people to trust their judgement, suffer almost no serious scrutiny (as the leaders will be controlling member communications tightly) and probably get approval.

Bluntly, we're rubbish at democratic education in this country and it shows itself in poor-quality campaigns before almost every vote. In England, learning about democracy is now buried in a few subpoints of an optional element of the primary school curriculum under the title "citizenship" - https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _and_2.pdf

marvinandroid wrote:I don't see why the change to charitable status meant an inevitable and execrable rebrand. You couldn't imagine the RAC or AA ditching its heritage and brand awareness in favour of something instantly forgettable and cringe inducing.

Do you mean the Royal Automobile Club?

They're rarely heard from these days. The services bit ditched the heritage and brand awareness of the club in favour of (current version)

and is now wholly owned by a private investment group.

Do you mean the Automobile Association?

Except we should call it "The AA" now because it's no longer an association and ditched the heritage of the club in favour of becoming a company floated on the stock exchange by three private investment groups in 2014.

Are these possible examples for CUK?

Nothing to stop someone from the 'Council' coming on here and telling us what they intend the reclaimed VAT money for? It could be used to make up income lost from members leaving or not renewing? Yes, in the absence of facts these sort of musings are just musings. But then, we are no longer club members, if we pay we are just supporters and dont really have any say in anything because we can no longer elect regional representatives to the council we have to choose from the councils chosen ones?

Al

al_yrpal wrote:But… its no longer a club, its a charity working for everyone, not specifically for members. You are no longer members, you are supporters funding a charity thats mission is to get more people cycling and bashing its head on a brick wall as far as cycling infrastructure improvement is concerned - there is no money.The Council have signalled that touring is an insignificant aspect of cycling so the CTC name has been dumped . Their current preoccupation is to get the last few years VAT back so they can fund salary packages for their new paid executives whose task is to get more money for cycle campaigning.

Al

'The Council have signalled that touring is an insignificant aspect of cycling so the CTC name has been dumped'

That's the bottom line. We're 'members' of a charity not the club we all joined.

al_yrpal wrote:But… its no longer a club, ....

Yes, I know that, but they could continue to run the CTC part in a more club-like style*, the charity conversion predates the rename by a few years....

In short, the "club" has been hijacked by sharp movers who wish to acheive self agrandisement, more power, larger paypackets, and a career, in the same way that the RAC and AA were (apparently as above). They have taken advantage of the weakness that we had in the organisation of our "club" and made the most of it. They have turned their back on providing "club" services such as the technical advice, very ably provided by Chris Juden, by kicking him in the teeth. They have (especially noting this weeks "cycle clips") turned their back on the CTC travel agency (the worlds oldest travel agent) which provides a specialist service for cyclists, as well as for the general public. This was as I understand the only part of the "club" which made a profit. They have turned their back on a brand - the CTC - which as I have said before, is potentially so strong that the likes of Coca Cola would be jealous. In short they have absolutely taken the micturate out of the ethos of the CTC.

Cycling UK is now IMO a mediocre campaign group which is psycophantically "sucking up" for government money, and even more substantially overlaps with BC, which has now become a far more effective campaign group - keep your eye on the national press, who is it that gets mentioned the most? I think they have made the CTC no more than a ridiculed organisation.

Personally despite being a third generation CTC member I shall not renew membership but will instead join BC for the insurance and group ride benefits and the TOURING CYCLISTS CLUB in the hope of regaining membership of a member led club providing services for ordinary cyclists. I hope that in the future we will be able to wrestle the CTC name and heritage from these fashion led unethical carreerists, who have "stitched" us up so badly.

al_yrpal wrote:Nothing to stop someone from the 'Council' coming on here and telling us what they intend the reclaimed VAT money for?
Al

I haven't heard anything about this bid to reclaim VAT, have you any details?