POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
Psamathe
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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby Psamathe » 8 Jul 2016, 9:09pm

Si wrote:
So over a third of the membership is not happy


Incorrect. About 1/20th of the membership voted against the rebrand. About 1/10th voted for. And one might assume that over 4/5ths were not sufficiently worried by the issue to cast a vote.

Sorry, you are right, a third of those who voted. I still think that is far higher than I would have expected.

Ian

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Philip Benstead
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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby Philip Benstead » 8 Jul 2016, 9:11pm

Did I waste my time by calling this poll?
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Psamathe
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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby Psamathe » 8 Jul 2016, 9:14pm

Philip Benstead wrote:Did I waste my time by calling this poll?

I would certainly say not. As I said above I'm surprised at how many voted against the re-brand and it should have sent several very strong messages to the Council/CEO (e.g. the membership does feel it should be consulted and have a say, e.g. the membership does not feel completely happy with what you (Council/CEO) are doing with the club).

Ian

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby PH » 8 Jul 2016, 9:39pm

Philip Benstead wrote:Did I waste my time by calling this poll?

Yes, and that of everyone else.
Did you for a moment expect anything other than yet another demonstration that the vast majority of members are simply not interested and of the small proportion that are, most are going to go along with the council's decisions.
When I pointed this out at the beginning of the process you asked what you should do other than roll over and die, well what's the difference between that and being dragged out kicking and screaming? I can't see any.
We fought to stop it becoming a charity, we lost. What's the point of fighting battles after the war is lost? No point at all. Better off putting your energies into something else.

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gaz
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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby gaz » 8 Jul 2016, 10:07pm

Philip Benstead wrote:Did I waste my time by calling this poll?

Only you can judge, it was your time. Clearly this is not the result you had hoped for.

However there is more to it than that. As Psamathe states, Council, yourself and the members who have followed this debate now have a firm indication of the strength of feeling for both the old brand and the new.

Chair of Council David Cox said: “Thank you to all who took the time to vote. The Cyclists’ Touring Club continues to be the legal name of the charity but with Cycling UK as our new trading name to reach the broadest audience possible. We are extremely proud of the heritage and achievements of the Cyclists’ Touring Club over the last 138 years. Many of our local Member Groups will continue to run their activities under the name Cyclists’ Touring Club as that best describes what they do. For many of our other initiatives in campaigns, off-road and community cycling projects, the name Cycling UK is less prescriptive when promoting the breadth of activities that they do. But together as cyclists we are driven by the passion and enthusiasm of all our members and supporters who make Cycling UK welcoming to all.”

If you take that quote at face value then the result will guide Council as they roll out the Cycling UK brand whilst retaining and respecting the CTC's heritage. There is still a place in Cycling UK for those who prefer to refer to the organisation as the CTC.

In raising the petition I expect you have made many new contacts, albeit largely on one side of the discussion.

The result is not the only thing achieved by the process.
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keithb
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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby keithb » 9 Jul 2016, 7:22am

No Philip, you didn't waste your time.

What you had done is demonstrate that the CTC is now,beyond doubt, no longer a primarily resource for touring cyclists but is focused now on campaigning and new cyclists. Touring little more than I side interest, like mountain biking (which it used to support more vigorously) and racing.

The club I joined is gone. This was the last chance of trying to keep the CTCs focus on its club activities.

I will be cancelling my membership I'll be asking my local group whether I can join them directly, bypassing the national organisation.

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby al_yrpal » 9 Jul 2016, 9:25am

Philip Benstead wrote:Did I waste my time by calling this poll?


Not at all Philip, you focussed attention on the actions of the people who have transmogrified the CTC beyond all recognition. I am no longer a member but well done and thank you.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. CTC gone but not forgotten!

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby jb » 9 Jul 2016, 1:55pm

Si wrote:
So over a third of the membership is not happy


Incorrect. About 1/20th of the membership voted against the rebrand. About 1/10th voted for. And one might assume that over 4/5ths were not sufficiently worried by the issue to cast a vote.

Whilst technically correct, It does somewhat hide the fact that the powers that be have for sometime been deliberately recruiting members from outside the broad touring fraternity which has resulted in 'the result'.

If you join a traction engine club and the committee start bringing in motorcyclists because they want to increase membership and the motorcyclists decide to call it 'The Motorbiking Club' you might feel a little aggrieved.

Still, its done now, time to move on.
Cheers
J Bro

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby merseymouth » 9 Jul 2016, 4:13pm

Hi Phillip, No, you did not waste your time or mine! It gave us a perfect illustration of how useless many members of clubs are!
They expect others to do it all for them, can't be bothered to even participate in a simple voting procedure? Same happens at election times for national & local government, apathy & bone idleness means poor turn outs!
Some then come up with the line - "I didn't vote, so u can't blame me"? Oh yes we can, if you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem!
So, I won't be renewing my five year subscription (over 3 years to go), but I will express my displeasure from within! I will yet again point out to the ruling cabal that it is supposed to be a cycling body, not a bicycle body, and even less a body in need of "Charity" status.
A sharp suit & an MBA does not signify commitment to the cycling cause, so take of the token to tradition (Winged Wheel Badge), and run up your true colours - "A Skull & Cross-bones" (Pirate).
I may well be wasting my time, but I feel better for explaining my displeasure. Yours Awheel MM

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby Psamathe » 9 Jul 2016, 4:22pm

merseymouth wrote:...
So, I won't be renewing my five year subscription (over 3 years to go), but I will express my displeasure from within!...

Others have reported that when they quit part way through their membership period they received a pro-rata refund. Other have reported having to ask for the refund (in the "I quitting" letter/e-mail). So no guarantees and I'd suspect that the organisation really wants the money at the moment (what with all their re-blanding costs, governance changes, etc. - one day they might remember "cyclists" and "cycling", who knows).

Ian

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby PH » 9 Jul 2016, 4:58pm

Psamathe wrote:Others have reported that when they quit part way through their membership period they received a pro-rata refund. Other have reported having to ask for the refund (in the "I quitting" letter/e-mail). So no guarantees and I'd suspect that the organisation really wants the money at the moment (what with all their re-blanding costs, governance changes, etc. - one day they might remember "cyclists" and "cycling", who knows).

Ian

Don't forget they'll need some of the money to pay for the poll.
When you say others have had a refund are you aware of more than 1? I know they frequently post about it but I've yet to hear of anyone else.

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby PH » 9 Jul 2016, 5:00pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Phillip, No, you did not waste your time or mine! It gave us a perfect illustration of how useless many members of clubs are!
They expect others to do it all for them, can't be bothered to even participate in a simple voting procedure? Same happens at election times for national & local government, apathy & bone idleness means poor turn outs!
Some then come up with the line - "I didn't vote, so u can't blame me"? Oh yes we can, if you're not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem!

How rude, how could you possibly know why others decided not to vote?

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby merseymouth » 9 Jul 2016, 7:29pm

Hello there, Am I rude ? . . . . . It was a simple question, continue re-brand or not? If one has no opinion on the issue what cold well ask why??
But with any ballot or election the "No Action Taken" group far out number the the active participants, again it is not a good sign !
I didn't ask for a return of my membership fee, nor will I, I made a contract for membership. But then again so did the CTC, I have not changed the aims & aspirations of the body I joined, the CTC/CUK has shifted the ground.
Don't presume to pull me up over assumed rudeness, I merely question the commitment of others to the Traditional CTC.
I go now with real sadness, as modern Mamil I am not. TTFN MM

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby PH » 9 Jul 2016, 7:47pm

merseymouth wrote:So don't presume to pull me up over assumed rudeness, I merely question the commitment of others to the Traditional CTC.

how useless many members of clubs are!

They expect others to do it all for them, can't be bothered to even participate in a simple voting procedure?

apathy & bone idleness

I didn't vote.
You called me useless, think I expect others to do something for me, can't be bothered, apathetic and bone idle. Then say you're not rude.

I didn't vote because the unlikely event of the decision being overturned wouldn't have achieved anything other than a six month delay.
This organisation didn't change with the re branding, not even with the charity conversion, it changed when the membership was opened up to encourage cyclists without a touring interest to join. The crossroads was the handing over of the clubs assets to the Trust, it stopped being the tail wagging the dog, the tail became the dog. That decision was made by the council and everything that's happened since can be traced back to it. Ask Phillip what he was doing then.

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Re: POLL OF THE WHOLE CLUB PLEASE TAKE PART YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT

Postby merseymouth » 9 Jul 2016, 9:24pm

Hello PH, So you feel pain for a comment about inaction?
Well didn't Edmund Burke say - "For evil to triumph it only requires good men to do nothing"? Substitute any word of choice for evil, which would be rude, then you have a reason why apathy can be harmful.
So what should we read into your displeasure over my wording? Without the CTC that we thought we were still a member of, what have we left? BC isn't what we want, Audax UK isn't appropriate either, that leaves us nowt!
Whoever set the CTC down this ill chosen path had a quite different agenda to many, many of us, hope they understand we don't feel very happy about the outcome!
I will remain a member until my time is up, as it will give me some cover when participating in Cycling Holidays.org tours.
As you have no interest or investment in what happens to the Club what is your agenda all about??? Show or Blow, now that is rude! MM