It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 19 Nov 2014, 4:13pm

mjr wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:Could tell me how CTC HQ and the Council can determine the will of the club, given it been said on this site that contributors on this site are not representative of the CTC

I don't know. You're the CTC member - you tell me. I've got little idea how CTC engages with its members on topics like this beyond the crude method of occasional elections. This opacity underlies several of my aforementioned reasons I've never joined it.



How can CTC engage with its member in a more effective and efficient way. Given some on this, admit to limited experience.

Can you explain in more detail why you do not join the CTC? Is it not better to attempt to change from inside.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
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AlaninWales
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby AlaninWales » 19 Nov 2014, 4:30pm

No links to the company, but a simple search found a range of ideas here http://www.wildapricot.com/membership-articles. I am sure other brands and free online advice is available. Basically CTC does seem to be stuck in an (early) C20 mindset when it comes to communications; 'Cycleclips' for example is just a magazine which is emailed: "Look at this we've done", "Read this interesting [to us] article", "CTC Job advert". Attempts to gather feedback? None.

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 19 Nov 2014, 7:07pm

It would seem that CTC went here to update it's branding and then decided that it would be best not to re-brand :) :( :? :| .

Things might be clearer when July's Council Minutes are published. Since they would have been approved at October's Council Meeting I hope that will be quite soon :| .
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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 19 Nov 2014, 7:14pm

gaz wrote:It would seem that CTC went here to update it's branding and then decided that it would be best not to re-brand :) :( :? :| .

Things might be clearer when July's Council Minutes are published. Since they would have been approved at October's Council Meeting I hope that will be quite soon :| .


Gaz

In your opinion how could the CTC be improved?
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 19 Nov 2014, 7:55pm

Psamathe wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:The point I'm trying to get across to Psamathe, is that it's a charity, not the membership organisation it used to be.

I appreciate that now. And they way it has chosen to operate is such that I do not intend to renew my subscription.

I think there are several misleading aspects to the CTC and maybe areas where that CTC is confused about how it should behave. I think what has thrown me is that I understood the CTC to stand for Cyclists Touring Club; "Club" being particularly relevant to me and I feel somewhat misleading.

If an organisation has "members" then, whatever it's status, it should be responsive to those members. e.g. I can't see why being a charity should mean it ignores e-mails from members.
What exactly does being a "member" mean when you join a Club and how is that different from being a "member" of a charity ? Does being a charity mean that "members" are no longer relevant ? (because I have the impression that is what is happening.

Ian


If an organisation has "members" then, whatever it's status, it should be responsive to those members. e.g. I can't see why being a charity should mean it ignores e-mails from members. CAN I HAVE DETAILS PLEASE IF REQUIRE TO philipbenstead1@gmail.com
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
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Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 19 Nov 2014, 7:58pm

Philip Benstead wrote:How can CTC engage with its member in a more effective and efficient way. Given some on this, admit to limited experience.

I assume you are referring to my comment that my limited experience would not make it appropriate for me to sit on the CTC Council given in answer to your question "I still want to know why no critics of the CTC stand for election to the CTC Council." (as my post is the only one in the thread mentioning "limited experience"). So my comment you have referred to out of context refers to my sitting on the Council NOT related to how the CTC could better communicate with its members !!

If you are going to refer to previous answers, at least have the good manners to do so in context rather than in this manner.

Ian

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 19 Nov 2014, 8:00pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:The point I'm trying to get across to Psamathe, is that it's a charity, not the membership organisation it used to be.

I appreciate that now. And they way it has chosen to operate is such that I do not intend to renew my subscription.

I think there are several misleading aspects to the CTC and maybe areas where that CTC is confused about how it should behave. I think what has thrown me is that I understood the CTC to stand for Cyclists Touring Club; "Club" being particularly relevant to me and I feel somewhat misleading.

If an organisation has "members" then, whatever it's status, it should be responsive to those members. e.g. I can't see why being a charity should mean it ignores e-mails from members.
What exactly does being a "member" mean when you join a Club and how is that different from being a "member" of a charity ? Does being a charity mean that "members" are no longer relevant ? (because I have the impression that is what is happening.

Ian


If an organisation has "members" then, whatever it's status, it should be responsive to those members. e.g. I can't see why being a charity should mean it ignores e-mails from members. CAN I HAVE DETAILS PLEASE IF REQUIRE TO philipbenstead1@gmail.com

e.g. E-mails sent 10 Sep 2014, 19 Sept 2014 relating to the failure of Fill That Phone iPhone app. No bounce, no response, ziltch. (But I'm not going to spend more time trawling through my e-mail logs)

Ian

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 19 Nov 2014, 8:27pm

Philip Benstead wrote:In your opinion how could the CTC be improved?


Interesting question, one for Council I'd say :wink: .

More seriously perhaps I'm the wrong person to ask. I have no axe to grind over the CTC becoming a Charity. The fact that the Gift Aid discussions have taken a "disappointing" turn does not surprise or alarm me. Whilst I like the Winged Wheel and don't wish to lose it, I won't be cutting up my membership card if it were to disappear. The Bedford Turbo Roundabout still strikes me as a bold experiment (somewhat less bold following the modifications) rather than a sell-out.

CTC isn't perfect but whatever changes are made one member's better may be another member's worse.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 19 Nov 2014, 9:12pm

<mod: post removed as the quotes were totally messed up and gave the impression that the quoted person was saying things that they did not say. I ask you all again, before hitting submit please reread your post and make sure that you are not putting words into other people's mouths.>
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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mjr
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 20 Nov 2014, 11:12am

Philip Benstead wrote:How can CTC engage with its member in a more effective and efficient way. Given some on this, admit to limited experience.

There are tons of ways, from old-style town hall meetings through to social networking, econsensus, e-democracy and loomio. Try things until they work. I know you're on here and engaging (and thank you for that even if we may disagree), but if I go to www.ctc.org.uk, click National Council in the footer (and for that I have to have some idea what the council is) then Who... then my local councillor (or you, for that matter), there's no way to contact you from there. I don't know if those contact details or methods are in some members-only area but I've never gotten the impression that they are from the people here who are CTC members.
Philip Benstead wrote:Can you explain in more detail why you do not join the CTC? Is it not better to attempt to change from inside.

No, I've tried both approaches in the past on other things and I feel it's worse. I've tried attempting to change groups from inside and it's a frustrating experience learning undocumented rules and practices. Working for alternative groups usually feels better and seems about as successful. I'd much rather be working for cycling in the borough where I live than trying to change a CTC that I feel shows (at least organisationally) little sign of wanting to engage new members and made me feel like a nuisance or unnecessary cost.

Who will be at http://lcc.org.uk/articles/2014-cyclena ... conference on Saturday - maybe some of us could talk over coffee?
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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 20 Nov 2014, 11:47am

Council contact details are in a pdf at the foot of the main article, you must have missed it.

If you want to see how the CTC canvases member opinions you could take the 2013 membership survey, you don't need to be a member. I'm rather surprised it is still open for responses but at least it gives an insight into the CTC's methodology. IIRC such a survey takes place every four years.

I can't remember if the results have been published in Cycle but they probably were, they're certainly quoted in the PTW briefing note.

Edit - Fixed link to survey.
Last edited by gaz on 20 Nov 2014, 2:34pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjr
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 20 Nov 2014, 12:37pm

gaz wrote:Council contact details are in a pdf at the foot of the main article, you must have missed it.

It actually appears in the middle of the article in my browser but you're quite right, I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out. I don't understand why so much of the CTC website is PDFs, but that's a different and more technical communications problem.
gaz wrote:If you want to see how the CTC canvases member opinions you could take the 2013 membership survey, you don't need to be a member. I'm rather surprised it is still open for responses but at least it gives an insight into the CTC's methodology. IIRC such a survey takes place every four years.

I can't remember if the results have been published in Cycle but they probably were, they're certainly quoted in the PTW briefing note.

I think I acquired a copy of Cycle containing the results (Feb/Mar 2014) in the club bar. It seems mainly to report demographics and broad-brush "x% very or quite satisfied" results when it would be interesting to see the actual breakdown. What's a PTW? Pick of The Week?

The survey seems to have been closed off now, so I can't compare the reported results with the actual questions. Was anything asked about the CTC approach to less-than-half-cycling bids for DfT cycling funding, or similar things like (I think this is the right name) the Cycling High Level Advisory Group? Is a large general survey every four years seen as enough engagement?
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby JohnW » 20 Nov 2014, 1:07pm

mjr wrote:...............I think I acquired a copy of Cycle ................?


For someone who says that they aren't a member, mjr, you do seem to take a lot of interest in CTC affairs and matters. Have you ever thought of joining? - I'm sure you'd be an asset.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 20 Nov 2014, 1:23pm

JohnW wrote:
mjr wrote:...............I think I acquired a copy of Cycle ................?


For someone who says that they aren't a member, mjr, you do seem to take a lot of interest in CTC affairs and matters. Have you ever thought of joining? - I'm sure you'd be an asset.

Yes but viewtopic.php?f=48&t=78803&p=839011#p839011 or in other words, high cost and low benefit to me. Beyond that, as you probably know, CTC and Cyclenation have a collaboration agreement and joint conferences like Saturday, so yes, I do take an interest in CTC.
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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 20 Nov 2014, 2:35pm

mjr wrote:The survey seems to have been closed off now, so I can't compare the reported results with the actual questions. Was anything asked about the CTC approach to less-than-half-cycling bids for DfT cycling funding, or similar things like (I think this is the right name) the Cycling High Level Advisory Group? Is a large general survey every four years seen as enough engagement?

Whoops, my mistake. Link fixed. There are some questions in there about the broad direction of CTC's campaigning and other activities.
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