It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
Keith
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Keith » 19 Aug 2013, 11:27am

Interestingly, the original information posted on the ctc.org web site just four days ago on 15th August now seems to have slipped into oblivion...... :?

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mjr
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 19 Aug 2013, 12:17pm

Si wrote:It would be nice if we could have a title that is concise, catchy and explains exactly what we are/do. (hey, I know, how about "British Cycling", what's that you say...already gone, d'oh).

Already gone? Drat! What else can we try? How about we want a whole nation cycling, so "Cycle Nation"? Oh, that's already gone too? :-/

I like Cyclists Touring Club and would also be OK with Cycling Transport Club, Cycle Travel Club and various other variations. I think the current doesn't-stand-for-anything is a bit silly and I think it would be good to keep the name's link with the past. I don't mind either new or old logos, and the letters ctc could maybe be fashioned into a person riding a bike.

I'm another non/lapsed-member and as I've written elsewhere, the campaigning, outreach and (theoretical?) cyclist control are the main Selling Points but the local ctc branch seem inconsistent/reluctant on them, with comments pretty similar to some of the "get on the road" style feedback I've had on this blog. I can get insurance and discounts that I like more elsewhere, and I've little interest in group road rides on weekday mornings while I'm at work. I'm not against ctc but I don't feel joining it would add £44/year worth of value, so I expect to focus on volunteering for the local CycleNation group and I'll maybe get around to joining ctc one day.
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PaulB
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby PaulB » 21 Aug 2013, 10:22pm

A problem for CTC is British Cycling which has now branched out into the areas that the Cyclists' Touring Club was involved in. Their Sky Rides are aimed at new riders and they are forming local groups all over the country. They have a high profile because of the UK's sporting success and their tie up with SKY (which I do not like).

I was a member of CTC for over 20 years but did not renew last year because of the charity issue and the cost of membership. British Cycling membership is about half the CTC amount and you get the insurance cover for that too. I'm now semi-retired but do not qualify for "pensioners rates". I looked at what I was getting for my membership of CTC and decided I could live and cycle without it. The magazine, like all current cycling magazines, is aimed at promoting new products and attracting advertisers, it often ended up in the re-cycling bag the day it arrived. I have really cut back on the number of cycling magazines I buy as non of them cover what I do; enjoy quiet day rides around the local countryside on my own. Carbon Fibre and Lycra are not involved!

British Cycling has begun to encroach on the "traditional" areas of cycling that The Cyclists' Touring Club promoted. If the sporting side of cycling continues to grow - including the Sportives - then BC will simply take over. CTC does not appear to know what it is anymore. You can change the name/strapline/logo but first you need a reason to exist.

reohn2
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 22 Aug 2013, 9:47am

PaulB wrote: ...........You can change the name/strapline/logo but first you need a reason to exist.


Which seems to me in the case of the CTC as an organisation(it's no longer a club)it exists to attract funding,with it's members being superfluous :?
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Mick F
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Mick F » 22 Aug 2013, 11:56am

+1

I joined the CTC as late as 2006 having prevaricated for donkey's years. I'm seriously considering not renewing next year.

I'm an "unwaged" member at £25pa and I would be a "Senior Member" at £25pa soon enough.
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thirdcrank
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby thirdcrank » 23 Aug 2013, 11:01pm

I'll suggest that the first thing to do - which some people still seem to find hard - is to accept that the charity conversion debate is now history. The CTC is now a charity so this is about the future.

The charity's purpose is the promotion of cycling (my wording.) There have been various debates about the name of the organisation, more recently the initials of what used to be the name and I'll suggest they have been futile. Nobody seems to fret that two of the largest motoring organisations include the archaic word "automobile" in their title and both are clubs :shock: Afaik, when they each formed their own campaigning charity arm they tagged "foundation" on the existing initials and got on with it. I know from experience that it's frustrating if media interviews, even at my lowly local level, often begin with a request to explain what it's all about but IMO that's more a sign of the widespread lack of interest in cycle campaigning than anything else. I don't think that the authorities at national and local level are in any doubt about what the CTC represents. I do think that anybody who identifies themself as a cyclist is likely to be treated as something of a half-wit by a car oriented audience, no matter how distinguished they are "in real life." Unless they deal prompty and uequivocally with with traffic offences committed by cyclists, they also risk getting bogged down or even being identified as delinquent.

The CTC itself seems to have been a bit slow to complete the transformation from membership organisation to charity. Some of the personal benefits of CTC membership are very important: third party insurance probably being the biggy for the thinking cyclist. OTOH, membership of a charity is more about making a financial contribution for the benefit of society as a whole rather than a personal cost/benefit analysis or worse still, a tax wheeze. Perhaps it's time to move ahead and and place a greater emphasis on the charitable side of charity membership.

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horizon
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby horizon » 24 Aug 2013, 12:02am

thirdcrank wrote:Perhaps it's time to move ahead and and place a greater emphasis on the charitable side of charity membership.


That would preclude then a refresh of the brand? Unless of course a new brand attracted more donations, higher membership and more funding in which case it's fully justified - the CTC can achieve more, do more, aquire a larger office, build a larger car park for its executive officers on their larger salaries and hit larger targets. A new meaning for charitable largesse, in fact :evil: .
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meic
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby meic » 24 Aug 2013, 12:09am

You forgot to mention larger cars. :mrgreen:

It wouldnt be good for our Charity's prestige if it was anything less than an Audi, BMW or SUV 4x4. :wink:

The nice thing about Horizon is that he makes even me look less cynical. :shock:
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thirdcrank
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby thirdcrank » 24 Aug 2013, 8:31am

There has been a lot aired in the last few weeks about the pay and perks of charity bosses; I presume this has followed briefings from some part of the tory high command. Before that, we've had industrial-scale fundraising eg chugging. It's all tended to detract from the image of charities as a Good Thing. The tax wheeze side of the charity industry must cost the Chancellor a bob or two.

However, there's been no real attempt to tackle the way that a system originally intended encourage welfare provision, by giving earthly reward to benefactors, rather than their having to wait for their meeting with St Peter, has instead been systematically and effectively used to reinforce privilege. It seems to me that the unwillingness to tackle this has enabled the things horizon criticises to flourish.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 24 Aug 2013, 9:17am

thirdcrank wrote:There has been a lot aired in the last few weeks about the pay and perks of charity bosses; I presume this has followed briefings from some part of the tory high command. Before that, we've had industrial-scale fundraising eg chugging. It's all tended to detract from the image of charities as a Good Thing. The tax wheeze side of the charity industry must cost the Chancellor a bob or two.

However, there's been no real attempt to tackle the way that a system originally intended encourage welfare provision, by giving earthly reward to benefactors, rather than their having to wait for their meeting with St Peter, has instead been systematically and effectively used to reinforce privilege. It seems to me that the unwillingness to tackle this has enabled the things horizon criticises to flourish.

Whilst the real issues of cyclists are paid lip service to and tinkered about with around the edges.
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beetroot
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby beetroot » 29 Aug 2013, 8:34pm

Keith wrote: "touring" must remain a cornerstone of its future activies.


Why? Could it not be the Cyclists Club? Many people own bicycles but never tour.

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Benethi
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Benethi » 29 Aug 2013, 9:03pm

admin wrote:I think the problem is that the CTC is trying to be two different things, that have limited overlap:

A) A club for people like me who enjoy cycle touring (i.e. riding for pleasure on rides longer than 5 miles at a time), providing information (e.g. LEJoG advice) and local groups where you can meet other like-minded cyclists and go on rides with them. This is a club not only for cyclists, but for keen cyclists. A club that campaigns for the continuation of the right to ride on public carriageways, mainly focussed on those country lanes that we so enjoy touring along.

B) A national charity campaigning for "cycling" in its broadest sense, for people like me who want to use bicycles purely for local transport. This sort of organisation isn't a "club" and people on bicycles who aren't "cyclists" aren't going to join a club anyway, no more than they'd join a club for people who walk for local transport. A charity that campaigns for off-carriageway motor-free cycleways that anyone from the age of 8 to 80 can comfortably use, mainly focussed on urban environments and short trips.


I think you're right here and maybe it should be split - how about, say, the Cyclists Touring Club, and the CTC Charitable Trust?
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mnichols » 29 Aug 2013, 11:22pm

Just for balance as this forum seems to have become a little negative: I enjoy being a member of the CTC. I like the website and the forums. It's useful to be able to get advice from like minded and experienced cyclists (yes, you lot) - I have got a lot of useful advice that I couldn't pick up in books and magazines because I can ask direct and specific questions and get free advice from experienced and friendly people very quickly. I have been on a CTC holiday and thought it was well run and provided good value for money. I like the touring focus, but also enjoy reading about other types of cycling in the magazine, which I prefer to those that I can buy in the shops because the reviews are fair and not written to please the advertisers. I have claimed on the insurance and it was easy, they didn't argue or make life difficult, they just paid. I think that the organisation providers an effective voice for me on National Cycling matters.

I'm just writing this to provide some balance, because I enjoy being a member of the CTC. I think those people that are involved are sincere and doing a good job.

Call it what you like, but keep up the good work.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Vorpal » 30 Aug 2013, 6:49am

mnichols wrote:Just for balance as this forum seems to have become a little negative: I enjoy being a member of the CTC. ......

Call it what you like, but keep up the good work.


It's only worthy of discussion if it's negative. :wink:

TBH, I think that some discussions have become negative. We all need a reminder now and again that the majority of members are happy, and the majority of cyclists have ride after uneventful ride without posting their near misses on on YouTube 8)
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 30 Aug 2013, 8:59am

mnichols wrote:Just for balance as this forum seems to have become a little negative: I enjoy being a member of the CTC. I like the website and the forums. It's useful to be able to get advice from like minded and experienced cyclists (yes, you lot) - I have got a lot of useful advice that I couldn't pick up in books and magazines because I can ask direct and specific questions and get free advice from experienced and friendly people very quickly. I have been on a CTC holiday and thought it was well run and provided good value for money. I like the touring focus, but also enjoy reading about other types of cycling in the magazine, which I prefer to those that I can buy in the shops because the reviews are fair and not written to please the advertisers. I have claimed on the insurance and it was easy, they didn't argue or make life difficult, they just paid. I think that the organisation providers an effective voice for me on National Cycling matters.

I'm just writing this to provide some balance, because I enjoy being a member of the CTC. I think those people that are involved are sincere and doing a good job.

Call it what you like, but keep up the good work.


+1