It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 8 Mar 2016, 6:22pm

Regulator wrote:Hey gaz...

How about posting something that Head Office hasn't fed you?


You seem to have mistaken me for Malcolm Smith :wink: .

Others on here know me better than that, thank you all :D .
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 8 Mar 2016, 6:31pm

Whimwham7 wrote:Having gone through several re-brandings with my former employers, due to mergers, takeovers etc., I know from experience that re-branding has to be an ALL or NOTHING process. Either keep what you have, or totally change everything. It also has to be done positively, and be something that conveys confidence to the staff and customers.

Council seem to want to have their cake and eat it, i.e. retain the winged wheel and all the history and tradition, and the funny bike logo, whilst at the same time adding yet another new logo and a new name. It simply reeks to me of a recipe for confusion, both to members and to those who the club wishes to influence.

I believe that this whole matter needs to go back to the beginning and start again


If you've been through several rebranding you will know that they are tightly controlled with an embargo up until the change is made. What appears to have happened here is the new brand has been leaked ahead of its official launch and switch. So I would expect the CTC to carry on as it has been up until the launch button for the new brand is pushed. Its not having its cake and eating it, its the consequence of an unfortunate and unplanned for leak. If Council could have had its way I am sure they would rather it stayed under wraps until official launch day but sometimes life gives you lemons and you just have to deal with them as best you can.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Barred1 » 8 Mar 2016, 9:05pm

TonyR wrote:
Whimwham7 wrote:Having gone through several re-brandings with my former employers, due to mergers, takeovers etc., I know from experience that re-branding has to be an ALL or NOTHING process. Either keep what you have, or totally change everything. It also has to be done positively, and be something that conveys confidence to the staff and customers.

Council seem to want to have their cake and eat it, i.e. retain the winged wheel and all the history and tradition, and the funny bike logo, whilst at the same time adding yet another new logo and a new name. It simply reeks to me of a recipe for confusion, both to members and to those who the club wishes to influence.

I believe that this whole matter needs to go back to the beginning and start again


If you've been through several rebranding you will know that they are tightly controlled with an embargo up until the change is made. What appears to have happened here is the new brand has been leaked ahead of its official launch and switch. So I would expect the CTC to carry on as it has been up until the launch button for the new brand is pushed. Its not having its cake and eating it, its the consequence of an unfortunate and unplanned for leak. If Council could have had its way I am sure they would rather it stayed under wraps until official launch day but sometimes life gives you lemons and you just have to deal with them as best you can.


To give the excuse of "a leak" being the reason for the brand disarray is pathetic - as Whimwham7 is saying quite clearly the branding has to be consistent - the stuff coming from Guildford about retaining the heritage wheel and groups still being CTC groups using the CTC logo etc makes it clear that there will be massive brand confusion for members (the few) and the world in general.

To get back to the leak .... a professional management would have a contingency plan for such an "unplanned" thing ... and with no disrespect to the people concerned the risk of a leak from volunteers rather than paid employees (as in a business) is obviously much, much higher - and probably accelerated by the reported management attitudes and behaviour.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 8 Mar 2016, 10:50pm

Barred1 wrote:To give the excuse of "a leak" being the reason for the brand disarray is pathetic - as Whimwham7 is saying quite clearly the branding has to be consistent - the stuff coming from Guildford about retaining the heritage wheel and groups still being CTC groups using the CTC logo etc makes it clear that there will be massive brand confusion for members (the few) and the world in general.


Since none of us have seen the brand proposals in full suggestions of massive brand confusion can only be speculation (or is it wishful thinking?). Perhaps you should wait until you;ve seen the whole proposal before passing judgement on it.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 8 Mar 2016, 11:24pm

Have we seen this?


On Fri, Mar 4, 2016, at 01:12 PM, Julie Rand wrote:
View this email in a browser


Dear Member Group Secretary

Cycling UK brand roll-out
As you will know from recent communications from Paul Tuohy and David Cox, CTC is shortly to rebrand itself as 'Cycling UK'.
This exciting news means that we will soon be issuing CTC groups with all the tools and information they need in order to adopt the new brand.
In the week commencing Monday 7 March, we will send you:
A 'Cycling UK' brand toolkit comprising:
• Full brand guidelines:
o the use of the brand;
o the tone of voice;
o associated colours, logos and fonts;
o suggested imagery to use on websites and in communications;
• Social media toolkit and sample local press release;
• Order form for marketing materials such as banners/fliers/business cards and so on which will be supplied by Cycling UK
• Information about a brand launch pack to use for your own Cycling UK celebratory events
• Information on Bike Week 2016
• Guidance on the use of the 'winged wheel' and 'wobbly wheel' logos plus the 'CTC' and 'Cyclists' Touring Club' names
The following week commencing Monday 14 March, we will host an interactive webinar to go through the brand guidelines and answer any questions you may have.
The brand will be officially launched on Tuesday 5 April 2016 so look out for a new-look website on that date. This will also be the date when we start using the brand name 'Cycling UK' in all our communications.
There will also be a special edition of the April/May edition of ‘Cycle’ magazine hitting your doormat around that time which will look at the background to choosing the new brand and what it will mean for the future of the organisation.
We hope you and your group are looking forward to using the new name, logo, fonts and colours as much as we are. We have received very positive feedback from many of our groups so far, but please don’t hesitate to get in touch if you have any concerns in the meantime.
Kind regards
Julie Rand
Member Group Coordinator


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CTC, the national cycling charity inspires and helps people to cycle and keep cycling
Registered office: CTC National Office, Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford, GU2 9JX
Cyclists' Touring Club, a company limited by guarantee, registered in England no.25185.
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Philip Benstead | Life Member Former CTC Councillor/Trustee
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Barred1 » 9 Mar 2016, 7:46am

TonyR wrote:
Barred1 wrote:To give the excuse of "a leak" being the reason for the brand disarray is pathetic - as Whimwham7 is saying quite clearly the branding has to be consistent - the stuff coming from Guildford about retaining the heritage wheel and groups still being CTC groups using the CTC logo etc makes it clear that there will be massive brand confusion for members (the few) and the world in general.


Since none of us have seen the brand proposals in full suggestions of massive brand confusion can only be speculation (or is it wishful thinking?). Perhaps you should wait until you;ve seen the whole proposal before passing judgement on it.


Like a lot of the folk on this forum you seem to go for the selective quote approach.

As Philip's post (that has already been published all over the place by MG secretaries) makes it quite clear the brand stuff has been announced with specific mention of the various old brands.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Vorpal » 9 Mar 2016, 9:07am

Lots of companies maintain multiple brands, and logos. This often work better when they are associated with particular products / models / activities / subsidiaries. I don't see any reason that that Winged Wheel can't be used by & for member groups, or CTC Holidays, whilst the Cycling UK is used for campaigning and promotion.

Some companies own thousands of logos and brands; this doesn't seem to cause their customers to be confused.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 9 Mar 2016, 9:13am

Barred1 wrote:
TonyR wrote:
Barred1 wrote:To give the excuse of "a leak" being the reason for the brand disarray is pathetic - as Whimwham7 is saying quite clearly the branding has to be consistent - the stuff coming from Guildford about retaining the heritage wheel and groups still being CTC groups using the CTC logo etc makes it clear that there will be massive brand confusion for members (the few) and the world in general.


Since none of us have seen the brand proposals in full suggestions of massive brand confusion can only be speculation (or is it wishful thinking?). Perhaps you should wait until you;ve seen the whole proposal before passing judgement on it.


Like a lot of the folk on this forum you seem to go for the selective quote approach.

As Philip's post (that has already been published all over the place by MG secretaries) makes it quite clear the brand stuff has been announced with specific mention of the various old brands.


So have you seen the just issued Brand Toolkit to see how the Winged Wheel, CTC and Cycling UK fit together in the proposed new branding or have you travelled forward in time to read the April/May issue of Cycle?

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby TonyR » 9 Mar 2016, 9:15am

Vorpal wrote:Lots of companies maintain multiple brands, and logos. This often work better when they are associated with particular products / models / activities / subsidiaries. I don't see any reason that that Winged Wheel can't be used by & for member groups, or CTC Holidays, whilst the Cycling UK is used for campaigning and promotion.

Some companies own thousands of logos and brands; this doesn't seem to cause their customers to be confused.


The Virgin Brand is an excellent example of how you can have diversity of logos and brands within an overall brand architecture that is unmistakeably Virgin.

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honesty
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby honesty » 9 Mar 2016, 9:23am

Virgin is actually not great as an example of what is being suggested here, as everything is unmistakably branded with Virgin everywhere. A better example would be Unilever. Have a look at how many trading names that company has!

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It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Paulatic » 9 Mar 2016, 9:24am

Take "Earth challenge " away from that group then ask 100 people who is behind it?
I don't think 100 people will say Virgin.
Also whatever happened to the opening business Virgin Records?
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Mar 2016, 10:03am

Philip Benstead wrote:...
The brand will be officially launched on Tuesday 5 April 2016 so look out for a new-look website on that date. This will also be the date when we start using the brand name 'Cycling UK' in all our communications.....

Except, under their own articles I understood that after the (your) petition they are obliged to hold poll of the membership BEFORE making the change. It sounds like they are ignoring their Articles, the membership, etc. and ploughing on ahead anyway. I would expect their ignoring all this to cause even more grief (and expense), particularly given the surprisingly large number of signatures on the petition.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Mar 2016, 10:16am

honesty wrote:Virgin is actually not great as an example of what is being suggested here, as everything is unmistakably branded with Virgin everywhere. A better example would be Unilever. Have a look at how many trading names that company has!

Plus, Virgin are not one company, not even all part of the same group.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Mar 2016, 10:20am

Vorpal wrote:Lots of companies maintain multiple brands, and logos. This often work better when they are associated with particular products / models / activities / subsidiaries. I don't see any reason that that Winged Wheel can't be used by & for member groups, or CTC Holidays, whilst the Cycling UK is used for campaigning and promotion.

Some companies own thousands of logos and brands; this doesn't seem to cause their customers to be confused.

I see the negatives in that the CTC Member Groups and WACU actually operating in the same general area (helping/encouraging/providing cycling). So where WACU does promotional things to get people cycling, those people think they will try, maybe an organised ride and to avoid the "head down lycra clad" crowd look for their local WACU group. But they can only find BC or CTC groups so, oh dear, none in our area. But then they would probably get confused between British cycling and Cycling UK, think they were the same and contact the British Cycling group.

We used to have several "brands" (in my working days), but they were completely different, seeking very different customers in very different market sectors, different phone numbers and where sales people were "shared" their phone systems would display the brand the call was for (though we'd normally use different telephone people).

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Bicycler » 9 Mar 2016, 10:39am

Vorpal wrote:Lots of companies maintain multiple brands, and logos. This often work better when they are associated with particular products / models / activities / subsidiaries. I don't see any reason that that Winged Wheel can't be used by & for member groups, or CTC Holidays, whilst the Cycling UK is used for campaigning and promotion.

Some companies own thousands of logos and brands; this doesn't seem to cause their customers to be confused.

Of course, you're right. Though I'd go further and say that if maintaining multiple brands/logos some kind of distinction between 'products' is absolutely essential. There can be subtle variants, but you can't be using two completely different brands for the same thing in the same market. I await the full branding information with interest.