It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 10 Mar 2016, 9:45pm

manybikes wrote:
The vacancies on Council are advertised in Cycle and you have a month to get together the five member signatures to qualify to go on the election list. If the number of applicants is equal to or less than the number of vacancies, the applicants are appointed to Council


Perhaps that used to be the case but didn't the present incumbent add the stipulation that you also have to be interviewed by the CEO to determine the validity of your credentials?


There the following are vacant seats on the CTC council
London X 1
Scotland X 1
North East X 1
North West X 1

The most of above are the results of the council refusing to advertise these seats to the members when each year there are elections.
If the current governance motion does not get pass at the agm
There will be another 3 seat available for election and plus 2 for councillor standing down, but I do not know who they are.
Last edited by Philip Benstead on 7 Apr 2016, 6:08pm, edited 1 time in total.
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Tonyf33
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Tonyf33 » 22 Mar 2016, 5:18am

Rebrand, absolutely, having to explain to people what CTC means and then shortly after trying to explain that it's not all about cycle touring, which is far too narrow in terms of tepresenting all people who wsnt to cycle, is one good reason among many why it MUST rebrand.

However, the logo is gash, a ten year old could have done it, if not better, the tag line confuses matters and should be removed.
More importantly the way the charity have gone about things has being amateurish, they've deliberately fashioned things to be as near to a closed shop as possible. Choosing to keep very important matters from the very core of what allows the charity/club to exist, it's members, isn't on and could well be a huge mistake. Use of a headline in the magazine or cycle clips periodically so that it was impossible to miss wouldn't have being difficult.

It's likely going to cost the charity far more in the long and be a whole heap of trouble all round.
Maybe as we've seen before when it comes to signing off micturate poor infra, it's better to have some money than nothing at all even at the cost of mickeying off the very people you're supposed to be making things better for :?

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honesty
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby honesty » 22 Mar 2016, 8:07am

Tonyf33 wrote:However, the logo is gash, a ten year old could have done it, if not better, the tag line confuses matters and should be removed.


This is my problem with it. The current logo is pretty pants as well. The winged wheel looks good, and could probably be re-vamped in some retro-modern look. You could even stick C.UK on it instead...

JohnW
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby JohnW » 22 Mar 2016, 11:31am

Tonyf33 wrote:..............It's likely going to cost the charity far more.............


Probably more than a technical officer.......................and a lot less beneficial.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby leftpoole » 6 Apr 2016, 10:00am

Hello,
Well my Cycle magazine arrived with what was a shock (surprise) to me, a new name for CTC!
Cycle UK? This simply sounds like a 'lets jump on the bandwagon of success' following British Tour de France winners, and associated stuff.
The magazine has gone from bad to worse with the latest possibly the thinnest on record? Contents mainly advertising.
The 'club' is now in my opinion all about making money to pay wages....................
The previous magazine at least had a presence when viewed front cover. The latest issue looks unfinished with wording all over the place.
I as you may gather do not like rebranding, nor do I like name changes. However along with a minority I feel certain to shortly be a majority on the CTC Forum as a non member of CTC.
I joined getting on for 30 years ago. I was proud to be a Cycle Tourist. Now I am nothing and indeed nor are any of those reading because the UK Government is taking over by stealth (Charity).
Regards,
John (who is most upset at all these changes).
Last edited by leftpoole on 6 Apr 2016, 11:20am, edited 1 time in total.

reohn2
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 6 Apr 2016, 11:13am

leftpoole wrote:......... Now I am nothing and indeed nor are are of those reading because the UK Government is taking over by stealth (Charity)......



Those's are my feelings and have been since the CTC became a 'charity',and why I didn't renew my membership when it did.
I'd say less about it if the 'charity' was doing any good for cycling.
But TBH I can't see a single thing it has done that's of any use,other than taking the membership's power away from them,taking 'quietening' money from government,and paying top brass good salaries,it's become a self perpetuating organisation that does precious little for cycling.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 6 Apr 2016, 11:24am

reohn2 wrote:...
I'd say less about it if the 'charity' was doing any good for cycling.
....

They fought (and won) the requirement to box your bikes when crossing the Channel via tunnel. Unfortunately, a short time later the operator re-instated the requirement (in part) but by then the CTC was completely pre-occupied with its re-brand so didn't notice and didn't bother to act (which I see as putting re-branding as of greater importance than real issues facing cyclists ... or at least "touring cyclists"). (As reported by people facing the requirement)

Ian

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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Apr 2016, 7:35pm

Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...
I'd say less about it if the 'charity' was doing any good for cycling.
....

They fought (and won) the requirement to box your bikes when crossing the Channel via tunnel. Unfortunately, a short time later the operator re-instated the requirement (in part) but by then the CTC was completely pre-occupied with its re-brand so didn't notice and didn't bother to act (which I see as putting re-branding as of greater importance than real issues facing cyclists ... or at least "touring cyclists"). (As reported by people facing the requirement)

Ian

I have drawn this to the attention of RG.DC, PT
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 6 Apr 2016, 8:13pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...
I'd say less about it if the 'charity' was doing any good for cycling.
....

They fought (and won) the requirement to box your bikes when crossing the Channel via tunnel. Unfortunately, a short time later the operator re-instated the requirement (in part) but by then the CTC was completely pre-occupied with its re-brand so didn't notice and didn't bother to act (which I see as putting re-branding as of greater importance than real issues facing cyclists ... or at least "touring cyclists"). (As reported by people facing the requirement)

Ian

I have drawn this to the attention of RG.DC, PT

But, had they been concerned and focusing of issues facing cyclists they would have been aware of it and started doing something (again). But I suspect they have been too busy with the re-brand (instructing people on the shape, size, colour, font, etc. of their new logo, reading/writing management reports, recording videos, etc.).

I don't mind being reported to RG.DC (whoever they are) - will I get banned from the forum for making people aware of it ?

Ian

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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 6 Apr 2016, 8:52pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:...
I'd say less about it if the 'charity' was doing any good for cycling.
....

They fought (and won) the requirement to box your bikes when crossing the Channel via tunnel. Unfortunately, a short time later the operator re-instated the requirement (in part) but by then the CTC was completely pre-occupied with its re-brand so didn't notice and didn't bother to act (which I see as putting re-branding as of greater importance than real issues facing cyclists ... or at least "touring cyclists"). (As reported by people facing the requirement)

Ian

I have drawn this to the attention of RG.DC, PT


I want them to do something
Roger Geffen
David Cox
Paul Touhy
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 6 Apr 2016, 9:19pm

Philip Benstead wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:
Psamathe wrote:...
They fought (and won) the requirement to box your bikes when crossing the Channel via tunnel. Unfortunately, a short time later the operator re-instated the requirement (in part) but by then the CTC was completely pre-occupied with its re-brand so didn't notice and didn't bother to act (which I see as putting re-branding as of greater importance than real issues facing cyclists ... or at least "touring cyclists"). (As reported by people facing the requirement)

Ian

I have drawn this to the attention of RG.DC, PT


I want them to do something
Roger Geffen
David Cox
Paul Touhy

There was a thread recently from somebody facing the new restrictions. They would be best contacting that poster.

Funny how this forum could be a fantastic source of information as to what is happening in the real world. Most people participating here get out on their bikes surprisingly often so as they post their experiences it could really help the organisation ... which must be why they ... pretty well ignore it.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 7 Apr 2016, 9:20am

TonyR wrote:The vacancies on Council are advertised in Cycle and you have a month to get together the five member signatures to qualify to go on the election list.

Other than the retired and unemployed who can go to CTC group rides held during the working week, how many people here meet five full members in a winter month? (I'm assuming that CTC's standing orders still haven't been updated to recognise digital signatures in line with the 1999 Regulations and that the vote is held in winter because new councillor terms start 1 Jan.)

Also, the last time I stood for election to a body with a multi-billion pound turnover, I only had to obtain two member signatures. Even that was fairly restrictive because one of its twice-yearly member meetings was held after you needed to get the signatures, so you needed to remember where people worked or lived from six months earlier and/or sign up some of your relatives or friends as members (I'm sure I wasn't the only one who did that - there was a participation threshold for candidates, but not for signatories).

So there is no reason the membership should not be aware of the vote and who the candidates are. If they choose not to vote that is exercising a democratic right that should be respected. What is not acceptable is not voting and then complaining about the outcome.

I disagree - there seems no deliberate attempt by any part of CTC I've seen to explain its democracy and develop its membership. It's probably not a choice by most members not to vote but a feeling that they don't understand what they'd be voting for, that they don't know the candidates from Adam and Eve and that they feel disempowered in general. It's perfectly acceptable if they want to complain about the democratic deficit IMO. Voting turnouts below 100 in regions with thousands of members is a sign of something seriously unhealthy.

Psamathe wrote:Funny how this forum could be a fantastic source of information as to what is happening in the real world. Most people participating here get out on their bikes surprisingly often so as they post their experiences it could really help the organisation ... which must be why they ... pretty well ignore it.

The forum's on the front page of their website now (twice, I think) so we'll see if that changes. Hopefully this forum will remain open to all people who get out on their bikes and not be clamped down to official policy somehow.
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Philip Benstead
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Philip Benstead » 7 Apr 2016, 10:32am

Where are they?
Why are there no CTC Councillors on this site or the CTC forum justifying the rebrand or the governance changes?
Are they frightening or ashamed?
<moderated>
Philip Benstead | CTC London and FORMER CTC Councillor SE
| 0794-980-1698 | philipbenstead1@gmail.com |
Organizing events and representing cyclist in southeast since 1988
Cycle Ride? http://www.meetup.com/socialcycling4u/
Bikeability Instructor/Mechanic

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 7 Apr 2016, 11:03am

Philip Benstead wrote:Where are they?
Why are there no CTC Councillors on this site or the CTC forum justifying the rebrand or the governance changes?

It is a rare occurence for any current Councillor to post on the forum. Council has made their case for the rebrand in Cycle, they could cut and paste it onto the forum but we wouldn't learn anything new.

Council's case for the rebrand is very much in the public domain. Why are none of the Councillors that you say do not support the rebrand decision and process posting on the forum?

Philip Benstead wrote:Are they frightening or ashamed?
<moderated>

I expect they are neither frightened nor ashamed. In the face of an invitation to post on the forum accompanied by a suggestion that people will take pot shots at them from their own entrenched positions what could possibly be gained from a "cut and paste" to restate their case here?
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Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 7 Apr 2016, 11:16am

gaz wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:Where are they?
Why are there no CTC Councillors on this site or the CTC forum justifying the rebrand or the governance changes?

It is a rare occurence for any current Councillor to post on the forum. Council has made their case for the rebrand in Cycle, they could cut and paste it onto the forum but we wouldn't learn anything new.

Council's case for the rebrand is very much in the public domain. Why are none of the Councillors that you say do not support the rebrand decision and process posting on the forum?

Philip Benstead wrote:Are they frightening or ashamed?
<moderated>

I expect they are neither frightened nor ashamed. In the face of an invitation to post on the forum accompanied by a suggestion that people will take pot shots at them from their own entrenched positions what could possibly be gained from a "cut and paste" to restate their case here?

As many here seem not to have accepted the case for the rebrand, it would seem a good idea for the organisers to engage and provide counter arguments to the concerns being raised.

I suspect they are waiting for the outcry to quieten down - and it will. In 12 months time I doubt the same threads will be as active. But the failure to engage only strengthens the impression that the organisers have become completely detached from the membership and the cycling community. They have an excellent platform to engage, explain, justify but instead rely on "statements" issued where there is no option to question or "hold to account". Disappointing but not unexpected given those running things.

Ian