It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cycling UK

Postby gaz » 8 Apr 2016, 1:22pm

:lol:
You forgot the robots, although they probably aren't members :wink: .
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JohnW
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby JohnW » 9 Apr 2016, 12:11am

Philip Benstead wrote:
I want them to do something
Roger Geffen
David Cox
Paul Touhy


I don't know, and have never met the Chief Exec, or David Cox. I have, however, met Roger Geffen, and in my own personal opinion it is out of order to bring Roger onto this acrimonious exchange personally - or anyone else for that matter.

I know Roger, having met him and heard him speak several times................and above anyone else I know, Roger 'does'. This is just my own stance, but having lost so much of the CTC, campaigning is all that's left and no-one, repeat no-one can be more proud of his work, his deeds, his achievements (as witnessed by his recent award in the honours list) than Roger.

Please - this is no place or thread to be naming individuals except in the highest terms of appreciation.

I don't think that anyone is more upset than I am at what has happened and what is happening to CTC, and all under conditions of secrecy. But I think that we've got to the stage where we are, I don't think that we can alter it, but for the sake of preserving campaigning we now have to run with it and support those parts that we believe in.

I know that won't be popular with a lot of posters (it only sits comfortably with me out of desperation), but anything else would simply be destructive.

I wonder how many of the erstwhile CTC's critics on these "About Cycling UK" threads are actually members?????????????

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 9:38am

CTC has played a part in a recent campaign by the whole cycling community against changes proposed by Eurostar to their bikes on trains policy.

http://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/zerostars

To my knowledge there have been two issues raised on this forum (not necessarily this thread) regarding a degree of "spin" to that story.

mjr has suggested that CTC over-played their role in the success: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=78798&p=957421&#p957421

Psamathe has suggested that Eurostar have not exactly reversed their proposals and CTC have over-played the success: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=103825&p=992027&#p992027

There is also a suggestion of an "opportunity cost" to the rebrand, i.e. staff time and members' money spent on the rebrand has diverted staff time and members' money from campaigning.

That brings us to:
Philip Benstead wrote:...
I want them to do something
Roger Geffen
David Cox
Paul Touhy

IMO Philip wants those people to do something about the Eurostar campaign and its presentation on the website. Philip is not suggesting that Roger has had any role in the rebrand. Philip is genuinely concerned that CTC had over-played their success or dropped the ball in not continuing pressure on Eurostar. Roger Geffen has repsonded: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=105017

I do not believe Philip had any intention of criticising Roger's part in this campaign, he simply wanted to draw Roger's attention to the fact that the discussion with Eurostar should still be ongoing and that there has been too much spin on the presentation.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby leftpoole » 9 Apr 2016, 10:13am

JohnW wrote:
Philip Benstead wrote:
I want them to do something
Roger Geffen
David Cox
Paul Touhy


I don't know, and have never met the Chief Exec, or David Cox. I have, however, met Roger Geffen, and in my own personal opinion it is out of order to bring Roger onto this acrimonious exchange personally - or anyone else for that matter.


I wonder how many of the erstwhile CTC's critics on these "About Cycling UK" threads are actually members?????????????


Hello,
I have been a member of CTC for almost 30 years.
John

Psamathe
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Apr 2016, 11:17am

JohnW wrote:...
I wonder how many of the erstwhile CTC's critics on these "About Cycling UK" threads are actually members?????????????

Relatively few now - as people seem to be leaving quite quickly. I was a member but left when it became obvious the management was not up to the task (in the management disaster of making CJ redundant).

Ian

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Velocio » 9 Apr 2016, 12:08pm

...I've been a CTC Club member for well over a decade ...and was in a non-CTC touring cycling club for a decade before ...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!
...ever cycle ...ever CTC

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Apr 2016, 12:12pm

Velocio wrote:...I've been a CTC Club member for well over a decade ...and was in a non-CTC touring cycling club for a decade before ...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!

I wonder how many moderators they would lose if they did that ?

Ian

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 12:19pm

JohnW wrote:...
I wonder how many of the erstwhile CTC's critics on these "About Cycling UK" threads are actually members?????????????

IMO the contributors probably include those who have never been members, recent and longer term former members, current but not renewing members, current and continuing members, life members and many others.

That's fine.

Regardless of the CTC/Cycling UK brand the organisation is seeking to appeal to all, even if you don't cycle you can still criticise/support their policies and actions.

Velocio wrote:...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!

I don't expect that at all.

If it happens I could always seek to organise a Poll of the Whole Club :wink: .
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 9 Apr 2016, 12:27pm

gaz wrote:...
If it happens I could always seek to organise a Poll of the Whole Club :wink: .

But would they pay any attention to it ? Seems what the pending polls of membership are not all that members might expect (e.g. they decide to ban non-members, but "the decision has already ben made" so members can have their poll but it wont be acted on.

Ian

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 12:40pm

We have already discussed the roll out of the rebrand in the context of the current succesful petition for a Poll of the Whole Club and the Club's Articles of Association, our opinions differ.

The Poll of the Whole Club will go ahead and I will not prejudge the Poll, neither in terms of the result of the vote nor the outcome of that result.

In this highly speculative discussion of an imaginary future Poll I am pleased that you have assumed that not only will there be 200 members left willing to sign the petition but also that I would be able to persuade them to do so :wink: .
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby JohnW » 9 Apr 2016, 12:47pm

gaz wrote:..............
Velocio wrote:...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!

I don't expect that at all.

If it happens I could always seek to organise a Poll of the Whole Club :wink: .


I think that these are matters for other threads with other titles. However, I can't resist short answers.

I don't think that the 'Forum' will ever become members only, and I wouldn't support the idea myself, but there have been one or two recent individual threads which, in my opinion, would have held the erstwhile CTC up for less ridicule if they had been.

A poll of the erstwhile 'Club' ( it is no longer a 'club') would be good if it were only valid if the minimum number of voters were a substantial proportion of 'members' and votes were not vested in the chair. You and I have discussed this point before Gaz, and with differing conclusions, but if only those votes from erstwhile 'members' who has actually bothered to vote had been considered valid then things may be different anyway. I know that your reference to a 'poll' was tongue in cheek, and possibly for interesting reasons, but they don't work, do they?............except that a 'Poll' is different from the voting on AGM resolutions.

I'm going on too much - honestly, I think we've just got to get on with it.

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 12:53pm

IIRC whilst there are arrangements for proxy voting at General Meetings there are no such arrangements in a Poll of the Whole Club. One member, one vote and every vote cast counts equally.

You are right that it is time this thread came back on topic.
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JohnW
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby JohnW » 9 Apr 2016, 12:58pm

gaz wrote:IIRC whilst there are arrangements for proxy voting at General Meetings there are no such arrangements in a Poll of the Whole Club. One member, one vote and every vote cast counts equally.

You are right that it is time this thread came back on topic.


Who, and how, would make the decision about whether to ignore the p0oll be made?

I'll stop deviating from the thread-subject now, Gaz. Anyway, it's stopped raining, so I may go out on my bike!

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gaz
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 1:16pm

JohnW wrote:Who, and how, would make the decision about whether to ignore the p0oll be made?

It is Council who will decide what action to take once the votes are counted.

The Charity Commission have indicated that Article 11 isn't really appropriate for a Charity.

Summing up they suggest that Council take legal advice if they are bound by a Poll of the Whole Club to follow a course of action that they would not otherwise have taken. One suggestion is that following such legal advice Council may deem that it has a legal obligation to follow its original course.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Vorpal » 9 Apr 2016, 1:34pm

Velocio wrote:...I've been a CTC Club member for well over a decade ...and was in a non-CTC touring cycling club for a decade before ...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!

The forum can't function as a 'members only' zone. Some of the volunteers who moderate / spambust are not CTC / Cycling UK members.
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