It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Discussion of the re-branding of CTC as Cycling UK.
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Si
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Si » 9 Apr 2016, 7:50pm

Psamathe wrote:
Velocio wrote:...I've been a CTC Club member for well over a decade ...and was in a non-CTC touring cycling club for a decade before ...I expect this forum will become a 'Members Only' zone ...sometime soon...!!

I wonder how many moderators they would lose if they did that ?

Ian


I think that the majority would be automatically barred!

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Graham
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Graham » 9 Apr 2016, 8:18pm

What is the long-term objective of those who are opposed to the new branding ?

As we can all see the re-branding has proceeded anyway.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby gaz » 9 Apr 2016, 10:31pm

Possibly I'm not the best person to answer your question :mrgreen: .
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Bicycler » 9 Apr 2016, 11:11pm

I assume that many are hoping for a vote against the name change in the upcoming poll. Beyond that, you might be assuming a degree of organisation which may or may not exist. I can't speak for others, in my case it's just a case of stating my view on something I feel quite strongly about. I think it's often a worthwhile act for someone to criticise that which they believe to be wrong regardless of whether there is any significant likelihood of change. Dissent does not have to be part of a wider campaign.

JohnW ably states the position of a pragmatist. Pragmatism is absolutely necessary and I have no doubt that pragmatism will ultimately carry the day. But that doesn't mean that others (perhaps idealists) are wrong to criticise something that they believe is wrong. If nobody objects because objection is futile then it might appear that support is near universal. If nobody gives the bigwigs a hard time over this, then what regard will they have for members in future decisions? So, yes, the rebrand will probably continue apace and most will sensibly continue to support the organisation in its campaigning activities as it moves forward. The vocal opposition of the minority will mean that this debacle will be remembered as the contentious, badly-managed issue it was, not the back-slapping PR exercise it would have been had everybody sensibly bowed to the inevitable.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Iand » 10 Apr 2016, 8:20am

On the note of criticism there are few options for former members(I assume we are All former members since the club/charity change) since the magazine seems to be heavily biased.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby leftpoole » 10 Apr 2016, 9:45am

Iand wrote:On the note of criticism there are few options for former members(I assume we are All former members since the club/charity change) since the magazine seems to be heavily biased.

Hello,
I am still a Member but will likely not renew later this Year which I am very sad about.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Steady rider » 11 Apr 2016, 9:47am

Last week I requested a life membership card be sent (I have been a life member for a year), the reply is as below. I would prefer the officially registered business name be provided on the card, rather than a brand name, that may change or be rejected by a vote of the whole club. Is there any legal requirement for the club to provide the listed registered name on my card? I joined the CTC as a life member and may or may not have chosen to join under a different brand name.

Thanks for your email.

I have requested you a life membership card but we are currently redesigning this to show the new name and the new brand. This may take more than a month though so it won’t be with you urgently unfortunately.

If you need proof of your membership though, please take this email to whoever needs to see the proof as I can confirm you are a full life member of Cycling UK (formerly CTC).

Many thanks,

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Steady rider » 11 Apr 2016, 9:49am

Sorry copied twice

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby mjr » 11 Apr 2016, 11:04am

JohnW wrote:I don't think that anyone is more upset than I am at what has happened and what is happening to CTC, and all under conditions of secrecy. But I think that we've got to the stage where we are, I don't think that we can alter it, but for the sake of preserving campaigning we now have to run with it and support those parts that we believe in.

Other campaigning organisations are available. I would say that one of the problems with CTC campaigning has been that it hasn't taking its members on the journey with it, involved them in developing policy, which I suspect is because there would probably be a strong "they'll have to prise any A roads out of our cold dead hands" undercurrent to it at least at first as a knee-jerk overreaction to Sustrans's sins. One of the problems with the CTC rebranding is that it hasn't taking its members on the journey with it, either.

I wonder how many of the erstwhile CTC's critics on these "About Cycling UK" threads are actually members?????????????


I'm not, for reasons I've outlined before, including viewtopic.php?p=709002#p709002 - I'm not forced to join by the 5-rides-as-a-guest (or is it 3?) rule and there's insufficient incentive to join otherwise.

I've been asked by many people to join over the years but I know I wouldn't stand idly by as CTC eats itself, I don't feel I've enough energy left to lobby CTC as well as government and CN, and I don't really feel much personal investment in CTC. Also, I'm a democrat, so if CTC is going to smash headlong into BC's sports-funded peloton, then surely it's up to its current members to turn the handlebars or not as they wish? I've tried to join and reform a couple of other organisations in the past and it's not been fun. Also, Cyclenation might even win a bit no matter which of CUK and BC comes off worse, although the whole collision is all a bit of a waste of pro-cycling resources :(

I'm on these forums mainly because Cyclenation had a (rather lopsided in reality IMO) collaboration agreement with CTC, and partly because there are some really really helpful participants on here who know a lot about the sorts of bikes and sorts of riding that I do.

Vorpal wrote:The forum can't function as a 'members only' zone. Some of the volunteers who moderate / spambust are not CTC / Cycling UK members.

It would function but it would probably be mainly a spam-infested cesspool and echo chamber like many other restricted-to-verified-members forums of other organisations. There are plenty of other cycling forums out there, including some who have a history of accepting refugees from other forums where unpopular management changes occurred.

Graham wrote:What is the long-term objective of those who are opposed to the new branding ?


Get your tanks off our lawn - I want to see CTC adopt a more modest and honest name and behave as one part of a cycling sector, rather than its new megalomaniac name that purports to be all things to all people and its recent behaviour of rarely crediting other groups who work with it.

As we can all see the re-branding has proceeded anyway.


Has it? My usual cycling group has some members who are also CTC local activists and I happened to ask some of them what they thought of the rebranding. The general response was that they weren't involved so they're going to ignore it, with one member going so far as to stick two fingers up and say that they're all volunteers and national office can't force them to use the "Cycling UK" name. I think this could get very messy if national office moves against the local volunteers... or even if it stops answering to the CTC name in any way. After those responses, I wonder if national announcements that refer to the organisation as CUK will even be republished in local CTC newsletters!
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby reohn2 » 11 Apr 2016, 12:30pm

Bicycler wrote:....... The vocal opposition of the minority will mean that this debacle will be remembered as the contentious, badly-managed issue it was, not the back-slapping PR exercise it would have been had everybody sensibly bowed to the inevitable.


Do you really think the top table care?
They got what they wanted through membership apathy,which is how they played the field.
The ones with any opposition firstly to the club becoming a 'charity',and then becoming 'rebranded' and changed beyond all recognition,left or are in the process of leaving the organisation,the ones who stay are accepting it out of loyalty to a dead body in hope of resurrection of halcyon days .
It's been a takeover,the CTC is dead,the carcass has been inhabited by another entity that lacked a body to live in and prosper.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Psamathe » 11 Apr 2016, 12:35pm

mjr wrote:...
Graham wrote:What is the long-term objective of those who are opposed to the new branding ?

Get your tanks off our lawn - I want to see CTC adopt a more modest and honest name and behave as one part of a cycling sector, rather than its new megalomaniac name that purports to be all things to all people and its recent behaviour of rarely crediting other groups who work with it.
...

+1. Excellently phrased.

Ian

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby leftpoole » 17 Apr 2016, 9:31am

Psamathe wrote:
mjr wrote:...
Graham wrote:What is the long-term objective of those who are opposed to the new branding ?

Get your tanks off our lawn - I want to see CTC adopt a more modest and honest name and behave as one part of a cycling sector, rather than its new megalomaniac name that purports to be all things to all people and its recent behaviour of rarely crediting other groups who work with it.
...

+1. Excellently phrased.

Ian


I want(ed) CTC to remain CTC

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 17 Apr 2016, 9:46am

Doesn't other me, its Just a name. It been years, decades perhaps, since the CTC solely catered for the touring rider, and the name change reflects that. Keeping the old name and logo doesn't alter the fact that the remit is now much broader and they promote the interests of all cyclists, not just those who wear socks with their sandals.

If you think it's just a club for touring cyclists then you're either in denial, or think it's still 1973.

The organisation moved on years ago. Now is just a rebrand - the substantive nature of the club has long since changed. Even if they kept the old name and logo you're still too late. It's been and gone, and that's was way back when.
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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby PaulB » 17 Apr 2016, 4:32pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Doesn't other me, its Just a name. It been years, decades perhaps, since the CTC solely catered for the touring rider, and the name change reflects that. Keeping the old name and logo doesn't alter the fact that the remit is now much broader and they promote the interests of all cyclists, not just those who wear socks with their sandals.

If you think it's just a club for touring cyclists then you're either in denial, or think it's still 1973.

The organisation moved on years ago. Now is just a rebrand - the substantive nature of the club has long since changed. Even if they kept the old name and logo you're still too late. It's been and gone, and that's was way back when.


I think you completely miss the point of the main argument against the name change. Yes, there is the misty eyed nostalgia of the old Cyclists' Touring Club and the ethos associated with that but much of the debate has been about how the "management" have destroyed a club and formed a commercial charity without considering the membership. Change happens but a good leadership will lead and not bully the followers into submission.

Your signature; "It's now called Cycling UK - get over it", is premature. There is a vote of the full membership to be taken. If the majority vote for the change then, fair enough, the rest must accept it - that's democracy. Should the majority say "No" to the new name the management have indicated that the name change will stand anyway. Do you really want to be a member/supporter of something that treats its members/supporters with such obvious contempt?

The new name and logo is appalling, my three year old grandson could have done better. The logo is so anonymous that I only noticed it at the forum head when another person mentioned it. The old "Cyclists' Touring Club" may have been very specific as to the type of riders it was aimed at but at least you could discern that from the name. "Cycling UK" means nothing and will be confused with "British Cycling".

As I've mentioned on another post, many of us joined a club. That club has now been hi-jacked by career executives looking to climb the corporate ladder. If you are happy to belong to such an organisation then fine but have some understanding of those long term members who feel very betrayed.

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Re: It's all in the name - Cyclists' TOURING club

Postby Steady rider » 17 Apr 2016, 5:05pm

Patron: Her Majesty The Queen
President: Jon Snow
Chief Executive: Paul Tuohy
Cycling UK is a trading name of Cyclists’ Touring Club (CTC) a company limited by guarantee, registered in England no: 25185. Registered as a charity in England and Wales charity no: 1147607 and in Scotland charity no: sco42541. Registered office: Parklands, Railton Road, Guildford, Surrey GU2 9JX.

http://www.cyclinguk.org/contact-cycling-uk

How much choice would individual have in what name they prefer or could use legally I wonder?