Statins - side effects

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georgew
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby georgew » 14 Feb 2017, 5:59pm

531colin wrote:
georgew wrote:............
I know that increasing age may have a part to play and it may be difficult to separate out the consequences from statin use and this fact....but I have to say that after stopping statins I now feel fully human for the first time in years.


I am now refusing statins.
I took one for maybe 20 years, until muscle pain and stiffness became unbearable.......muscle pain/stiffness is the most common side-effect listed in the leaflet, and predisposing factors are age and light weight.....well, I've never been this old before, and I haven't been this light since I was maybe 30.
I took about a year off statins, and was back to 100 mile days in the summer. Then I got talked into trying another statin, about 3 months this time until I was unable to put my socks on.
So thats it, no more statins for me. If I were to take the bloody things I rather doubt I would live for ever, but it might just feel like it!



I suspect that more and more people are doing this.

irc
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby irc » 14 Feb 2017, 6:44pm

Has anyone suffering statin side effects ever reported them using the yellow card scheme? I suspect busy GPs may not always/often do so. The website says either patients or health professionals can report the. Suspiscion is enough, absolute proof not required.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/the-yellow-card-scheme/

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 14 Feb 2017, 7:23pm

irc wrote:Has anyone suffering statin side effects ever reported them using the yellow card scheme?

Yes, I've screamed into that black hole! :lol:
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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softlips
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby softlips » 16 Feb 2017, 9:47pm

irc wrote:Has anyone suffering statin side effects ever reported them using the yellow card scheme? I suspect busy GPs may not always/often do so. The website says either patients or health professionals can report the. Suspiscion is enough, absolute proof not required.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/the-yellow-card-scheme/


Side affects are well known and are reported in all the double blind randomised trials. While I'm sure for most people the side effects are very real, and I've had patients who I believe, it is interesting how many more side effects were reported by those in the placebo arm.

There's side effects to just about everything in the medical world.

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georgew
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby georgew » 17 Feb 2017, 11:21am

softlips wrote:
irc wrote:Has anyone suffering statin side effects ever reported them using the yellow card scheme? I suspect busy GPs may not always/often do so. The website says either patients or health professionals can report the. Suspiscion is enough, absolute proof not required.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/the-yellow-card-scheme/


Side affects are well known and are reported in all the double blind randomised trials. While I'm sure for most people the side effects are very real, and I've had patients who I believe, it is interesting how many more side effects were reported by those in the placebo arm.

There's side effects to just about everything in the medical world.


I'm sure these side-effects may be well-known within the medical world but I'm equally sure they are not known among those taking statins. I've never been informed by any GP of any side-effect and everything I do know of them has been garnered through using Google. It's only when I've complained about these to my GP that they have been acknowledged.

softlips
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby softlips » 17 Feb 2017, 12:30pm

georgew wrote:
softlips wrote:
irc wrote:Has anyone suffering statin side effects ever reported them using the yellow card scheme? I suspect busy GPs may not always/often do so. The website says either patients or health professionals can report the. Suspiscion is enough, absolute proof not required.

https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/the-yellow-card-scheme/


Side affects are well known and are reported in all the double blind randomised trials. While I'm sure for most people the side effects are very real, and I've had patients who I believe, it is interesting how many more side effects were reported by those in the placebo arm.

There's side effects to just about everything in the medical world.


I'm sure these side-effects may be well-known within the medical world but I'm equally sure they are not known among those taking statins. I've never been informed by any GP of any side-effect and everything I do know of them has been garnered through using Google. It's only when I've complained about these to my GP that they have been acknowledged.


That's not good. The muscle pains some people experience can have fair reaching consequences if the medication isn't stopped. It is a fine line between warning about potential side effects and making patients feel they will get them themselves though, nevertheless patients should be warned.

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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Mick F » 17 Feb 2017, 2:19pm

I wasn't warned.
Even when I saw the doc about my horrible headaches, he didn't mention my statins.

It took ME to look at the leaflet and add two and two together.
Mick F. Cornwall

durhambiker
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby durhambiker » 20 Feb 2017, 9:34am

Im 53.male.had a heart attack.stopped the statin due to side effects about 3 years ago.I do find it extremely insulting when people suggest im a hypercondriac or mistaken about statins..I can assure you 100% i conducted my checks on statins and without doubt were the cause of my side effects which went overnight and never returned..Im a keen cyclist and have no desire whatsoever to imagine illness..and im no gung ho anti pills merchant either.

nez dans le guidon
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 20 Feb 2017, 9:49am

531colin wrote:
georgew wrote:............
I know that increasing age may have a part to play and it may be difficult to separate out the consequences from statin use and this fact....but I have to say that after stopping statins I now feel fully human for the first time in years.


I am now refusing statins.
I took one for maybe 20 years, until muscle pain and stiffness became unbearable.......muscle pain/stiffness is the most common side-effect listed in the leaflet, and predisposing factors are age and light weight.....well, I've never been this old before, and I haven't been this light since I was maybe 30.
I took about a year off statins, and was back to 100 mile days in the summer. Then I got talked into trying another statin, about 3 months this time until I was unable to put my socks on.
So thats it, no more statins for me. If I were to take the bloody things I rather doubt I would live for ever, but it might just feel like it!


One of the problems they can induce (it's on the leaflet) is diabetes. One of the things gps give statins to you for is diabetes - diabetics are thought more likely to have a heart attack. So, drugs that impair insulin sensitivity are given to people with impaired insulin sensitivity because of a supposed statistical improvement of odds for everyone who takes statins. Now that's salesmanship.

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531colin
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby 531colin » 20 Feb 2017, 1:50pm

Its complicated.....and I'm not an expert, this is my "slightly-interested layman's" view.....
Its difficult to show statistically much benefit from taking statins in a population that hasn't had either heart attack or stroke. Estimates seem to vary between 20 treated for one to benefit and 120 treated for one to benefit.
When you look at populations that have experienced either heart attack or stroke, there is a much better population based statistical evidence of benefit. The biologist's explanation currently seems to be this......
Forget blood cholesterol levels, forget ratios of good and bad cholesterol. If you have had heart attack or stroke, the chances are this was caused by an "active" (inflamed?) plaque showering off blood clots. Statins seem to work by stabilising plaques; there is something about diabetics which makes their plaques more likely to be "active" (and i can't remember anything more than that)
On the face of it, giving a diabetic something which can "cause" diabetes is perverse; however, giving somebody with "active" plaques something which can stabilise their plaques seems reasonable.
Having given up on statins I am now taking omega 3 fish oil capsules....this is on the basis that they are unlikely to do me any harm, and there are reports of these oils stabilising plaques.
I'm not in a position to judge how sound any of this stuff is.

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georgew
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby georgew » 22 Feb 2017, 11:31am

^^^^^^^^^^^^

As you say Colin ..it's complicated.

At present only Omega 3 fish oil is prescribed on the NHS and this contains two n-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA. The research results are rather confusing, with some results reporting that a combination of the two fatty acids (as in Omega 3) help prevent plaque inflammation while other research say that only EPA (marketed as "Pure EPA") does this and in fact when EPA is coupled with DHA then this reduces this therapeutic effect. It's really difficult to know which way to jump but I decided to go the pure EPA route but this is expensive given the dosage required and the fact that it cannot be obtained by prescription.
I also take vitamin D as a supplement as recommended by my GP.

nez dans le guidon
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 6 Mar 2017, 2:53am

Snap with the fish oil in the place of statins. As a side effect people keep telling me I'm looking in good health. I think they mean it like 'you've got a glossy coat.'

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mjr
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 6 Mar 2017, 12:25pm

How are your test results? I didn't find MegaRed's Krill Oil capsules had any noticeable effect.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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531colin
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby 531colin » 6 Mar 2017, 3:33pm

My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".
However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?

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mjr
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby mjr » 6 Mar 2017, 4:34pm

531colin wrote:My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".

2 different statins might not be enough. IIRC, there are two major groups: fat-soluble (including simvastatin/Zocor and atorvastatin/Lipitor) and water-soluble (including rosuvastatin/Crestor). Some people tolerate one but not the other, although I'm not one and I've no idea how many are.

As I've mentioned above, I wonder if physically-active people are less tolerant of statins than the general population.

531colin wrote:However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?

High cholesterol is still seen as a risk factor, although belief that it only matters if the plaque is unstable maybe means that maybe we should be looking at apoB:apoA-I ratio instead (apolipoproteins... B is found in artherogenic particles like VLDL, A-I is found in anti-artherogenics like HDL)... but I don't think that's currently measured in NHS tests and private tests are somewhere over £300 a go.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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