Statins - side effects

Bonefishblues
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Bonefishblues » 4 Sep 2018, 9:48am

brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
ianrobo wrote:
whether you believe in statins or not what you have shown here is key and that is for every patient to be informed about these things and then you make a decision based on yes Doctor's advice but your own investigations.

Yes there is a lot of contradictory evidence out there but who is to say a standard GP is right ? how much training do you think they have had on heart disease/food/statins etc .... it is general practice after all and no patient has to take what the doctor says.


I had to read my own ECG and explain to my GP. He is actually a very good GP but unless you’re looking at ECGs every day you can’t go much beyond the very basics.

That is the thing I think
GPs have a very broad training
Anyone who has suffered an illness and read up about it might know more than their GT

I imagine GPs spend a lot of their time managing the worried well in addition to disabusing people of ideas and 'expertise' they have gained online. T'web's a great thing if used wisely!

Chris Ince
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Joined: 13 Jan 2008, 5:14pm

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Chris Ince » 12 Oct 2018, 9:41pm

Bored watching tv tonight so thought I would troll through the forum and came across this. Mick, I would never take statins apart from the fact I had a major heart attack nine years ago and have been on simvastatin ( and a shed load of other drugs) ever since. I hate chuck pills down my throat but in my case my GP says it is really an insurance policy. That may be the case but it worse was I ended up with aggressive prostate cancer last year and then surgery, hormone and radiotherapy; but that's another story. The only thing is it has completely messed up my cycling as it has left me permanently incontinent. Wished I'd never had the op and taken my chance with another 5-15 years of long distance cycling without constantly micturating.if anyone out there has had the same and knows how to cope, I would appreciate it. Club runs for me are Infrequent and short for me these days.[quote][/quote]
Last edited by Chris Ince on 14 Oct 2018, 2:17pm, edited 1 time in total.

nez dans le guidon
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 12 Oct 2018, 9:54pm

531colin wrote:My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".
However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?
sorry to raise this Colin after such a long time but I’ve recently done a bit of research on line on this subject and I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Cholesterol is rarely a fail safe indicator for trouble or safe passage. Insulin resistance is and, apparently, arterial calcium plaque is too. There’s a biochemist who’s written about it - Ivor Cummins.

nez dans le guidon
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 12 Oct 2018, 9:56pm

Chris Ince wrote:Bored watching tv tonight so thought I would troll through the forum and came across this. Mick, I would never take statins apart from the fact I had a major heart attack nine years ago and have been on simvastatin ( and a shed load of other drugs) wver since. I hate chuck pills down my throat but in my case my GP says it is really an insurance policy. That may be the case it worse was I ended up with aggressive prostate cancer last year and then surgery, hormone and radiotherapy; but that's another story. The only thing is it has completely messed up my cycling as it has left me permanently incontinent. Wished I'd never had the op and taken my chance with another 5-15 years of long distance cycling without constantly micturating.if anyone out there has had the same and knows how to cope, I would appreciate it. Club runs for me are Infrequent and shirt for me these days.

Good luck Chris.

nez dans le guidon
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 12 Oct 2018, 9:58pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:
softlips wrote:
I had to read my own ECG and explain to my GP. He is actually a very good GP but unless you’re looking at ECGs every day you can’t go much beyond the very basics.

That is the thing I think
GPs have a very broad training
Anyone who has suffered an illness and read up about it might know more than their GT

I imagine GPs spend a lot of their time managing the worried well in addition to disabusing people of ideas and 'expertise' they have gained online. T'web's a great thing if used wisely!
doctors say 50% of medical training is out of date soon after they qualify - but the problem is no one can predict which 50%

Chris Ince
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Joined: 13 Jan 2008, 5:14pm

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Chris Ince » 12 Oct 2018, 10:11pm

Many thanks, just posted extended post under Prostatitis forum, salutary lesson if you want to read it

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531colin
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Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby 531colin » 13 Oct 2018, 7:31pm

nez dans le guidon wrote:
531colin wrote:My GP had a minor sense of humour failure along the lines of "If you're not going to take the statins, then there's no point in me testing your cholesterol." On the plus side, she didn't try to push me into taking a third variety of statins....for me, the same side effects from 2 different statins was enough. (and she said that she "might have to treat 20 people for one person to gain any benefit".
However, if the real beneficial effect of statins (and for that matter fish oil) is that they stabilise plaques, then maybe blood cholesterol isn't too important a measure?
sorry to raise this Colin after such a long time but I’ve recently done a bit of research on line on this subject and I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head. Cholesterol is rarely a fail safe indicator for trouble or safe passage. Insulin resistance is and, apparently, arterial calcium plaque is too. There’s a biochemist who’s written about it - Ivor Cummins.


My daughter worked in the stroke department in Addenbrooks for a while, so I'm afraid its who I know rather than what I know.

nez dans le guidon
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 13 Oct 2018, 7:35pm

But can she build wheels? :shock:

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 15 Oct 2018, 8:26pm

Hi,
I am back on statins and anticoagulants too.

After my diagnosis of a restriction in my leg artery, which I previously had an operation on in 87.

I will just have to live with it, symptoms have been coming on for a few years now.
Any intervention is dangerous before it becomes limp threatening.

Fortunately I can cycle with mild discomfort.
Priority Is Still 500K In 24......Just Dreaming..............Stay Focused Guys And Keep Sharp.....
You'll Find Me At The Top Of a Hill...............Somewhere

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deliquium
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby deliquium » 30 Oct 2018, 9:48am

Current pedalable joys

"you would be surprised at the number of people in these parts who nearly are half people and half bicycles"

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Cugel
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby Cugel » 7 Nov 2018, 11:36am

deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel

nez dans le guidon
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Joined: 19 Jun 2008, 12:11am

Re: Statins - side effects

Postby nez dans le guidon » 7 Nov 2018, 1:09pm

This makes me wonder what you imagine a swathe is 8)

ianrobo
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Re: Statins - side effects

Postby ianrobo » 8 Nov 2018, 8:09pm

Cugel wrote:
deliquium wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/oct/30/butter-nonsense-the-rise-of-the-cholesterol-deniers

That article is a fine example of how science is not a nice linear accumulation of more facts but rather a series of revolutions in which whole swathes of what was previously "known" is replaced by another swathe of "what's now known and different". Essentially, an old guard and their notions are replaced by a new guard with theirs - just like in politics. :-)

Read all about it in:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Structure-Scie ... evolutions

Cugel


I could tear this load of nonsense apart in so many areas from that article but let me throw this article at you

https://www.spiked-online.com/2018/08/30/eat-more-meat/

and the rise of veganism claiming meat/sat fat is damaging to health.

People have to make up their own mind but bear in mind the average GP or even consultant has little nutrition trying. A cardiovascular surgeon I know confirmed this .... remember in any treatment you are the patient and you can decide to take it or not, you are not forced to take what they say at face value.