Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Jdsk
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Jdsk »

Vorpal wrote:file:///C:/Users/......

It seems that financial incentives work best when there are also initiatives to overcome barriers to cycling and/or incentives to drive.

Thanks for those, Vorpal.

Is that:
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/17/6033/html

Edited: You've already fixed it!

Jonathan
Stevek76
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Stevek76 »

Ah thanks those are some interesting links.

I don't think such a payment would do well on an equality assessment here either. Without the removal of the far bigger barriers to cycling, it will largely be a case of paying the demographics that we know are already more likely to cycle in hostile conditions. i.e. Male, white, younger & middle aged adults and those on higher incomes.

Once that safe, direct network in place then this certainly has potential, but equally so do the sticks of congestion/workplace parking charges and dynamic road user pricing and it's probably easier to implement those.
atlas_shrugged
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by atlas_shrugged »

That would be a good thing if we can incentify an early adopter group straight away. I do not buy the argument about 23c/km only benefiting white men (we would need the data from Belgium). In Cranebridge the male/female cycling ratio is about 50/50. Do not forget poor working people who would be greatly incentified by being paid to commute. This would also enable them to take jobs further away that they would otherwise be excluded from by an expensive commute.

Where I do agree with you is that the commute journey should not be dangerous. We definitely need to start creating these safe long distance routes but these would be five years away with the best will in the world. Why does the UK move so slowly? It is correct to say the UK is one of the most dangerous European countries in which to cycle (per 100km cycled). BUT when you stop using oil you instantly save lives too because less oil is being extracted and transported and used for driving. I had a friend killed on an oil rig off Nigeria when a badly welded I-beam fell on his head. When we fill up our petrol tanks we are killing people (and animals).
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by atlas_shrugged »

Quite an interesting talk about obesity and a possible link to a worse outcome with the 'virus':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiJ3lOB5XJM
Psamathe
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Psamathe »

Just listening to the Naked Scientists Podcast (several episodes ago) and Chris Smith saying how the obesity crisis we have slept-walked into in the UK (UK is no 3 or 4 in world for obesity) will in the longer term cause far more death, disease & disability than the impact of any pandemic of a virus.

I'm just referencing the info from the podcast as I don't have data myself https://www.thenakedscientists.com/podc ... ence-round 15:00 into podcast.

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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by simonineaston »

Jury still out as to causes of obesity (which once we've got our head round it, will turn out to be multi-factorial - something we're not particularly good at...), but I've got 10p that says a major factor is the processed food industry and their cynical and profit-driven obsession with all sorts of peculiar ingredients. For those interested in modern industrial food production techniques (and who wouldn't be - we are, literally, what we eat!), two books worth a goosey-gander are:
Swallow This: Serving Up The Food Industry's Darkest Secrets
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
In the latter, the reader will learn how closely-connected the oil industry and the food-processing industry are - indeed, the word is not so much 'closely' but rather 'inextricably' !
Particularly annoying is the fast-food sector's use of super-sizing, which is less about nutrition, and more akin to the gambling industry's worst practices in that it's driven by their knowledge of how addiction can work...
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Tim Holman
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Tim Holman »

I am with you, Si. Factory food and too big portions are at the root of it all but it is so difficult to avoid.
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Cyril Haearn »

I manage to avoid it by preparing my food at home, quite easy. I do not fancy eating restaurant food prepared by a stranger
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by foxyrider »

I made a decision @ 25 years ago to not eat in MaccyD's, can't even remember why, but that has spread to include BK and Subway - its quite easy to do - just walk past them. I actually like a burger now and then, and i can't deny being tempted a time or two! In the same way i usually do a few alcohol free months each year - not that i drink much anyway but if you don't buy it you can't drink it.

Just because you cook it yourself doesn't necessarily make things better, I live with someone who home cooks most meals but their portions are if anything bigger than anything bar an old fashioned transport cafe! Once this Covid business is over i will be eating out, i don't want to spend hours cooking every day so i do eat out, just not in fast food joints (well not very often!)

Adults can choose the type and quantity of food to eat (children much less so), just as they can choose to drink, smoke, exercise etc, if you see someone loading a trolley in the supermarket with 'TV dinners', sweets and crates of beer they have chosen to do that. The excuses of price & convenience are always rolled out but they are just that, excuses, if they wanted to eat more healthily they could with no cost impact and time - well some microwave food takes longer to cook than making the same thing fresh!
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Tim Holman »

We decided years ago never to use McDonalds or anything similar and we almost always prepare food from "ingredients". The virus measures brought home to me just how many people rely on take away and food provided by caterers and other outlets. I thought everyone cooked their own dinner every day like me...but NO. Oh dear, I am sounding old but not yet defeated!
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by mjr »

Vorpal wrote: 20 Feb 2021, 9:52pm It's no good supporting active travel, if it is done in by a village not having a nearby post office, nor public transport to get there.
I disagree with that dismissive urbanist attitude. Supporting active travel and the "20 minute village" concept can often be accomplished very cheaply by making one country back lane to a nearby services village or town into a "quiet lane" (a rural bicycle street, possibly closed to through motoring except keyholders) or more expensively by a cycleway alongside an A road.
Last edited by mjr on 9 Apr 2021, 10:39am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by KTHSullivan »

simonineaston wrote: 8 Apr 2021, 11:34am Jury still out as to causes of obesity (which once we've got our head round it, will turn out to be multi-factorial - something we're not particularly good at...), but I've got 10p that says a major factor is the processed food industry and their cynical and profit-driven obsession with all sorts of peculiar ingredients. For those interested in modern industrial food production techniques (and who wouldn't be - we are, literally, what we eat!), two books worth a goosey-gander are:
Swallow This: Serving Up The Food Industry's Darkest Secrets
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
In the latter, the reader will learn how closely-connected the oil industry and the food-processing industry are - indeed, the word is not so much 'closely' but rather 'inextricably' !
Particularly annoying is the fast-food sector's use of super-sizing, which is less about nutrition, and more akin to the gambling industry's worst practices in that it's driven by their knowledge of how addiction can work...
I tend to agree with the above comments. I spent a very brief period as a consultant within the food industry quite a few years ago. The company was manufacturing "ready meals" for a well known "higher end" supermarket on a sole basis. The amount of waste in both energy use and physical resources during the manufacturing process was phenomenal; several tonnes of food "waste" was discarded every day. Obviously the cost of the losses was passed on to the consumer; end products with a literally a few pennies worth of ingredients were retailed for pounds on the supermarket shelves. I have not bought a ready meal since.
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Vorpal »

mjr wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 10:28am
Vorpal wrote: 20 Feb 2021, 9:52pm It's no good supporting active travel, if it is done in by a village not having a nearby post office, nor public transport to get there.
I disagree with that dismissive urbanist attitude. Supporting active travel and the "20 minute village" concept can often be accomplished very cheaply by making one country back lane to a nearby services village or town into a "quiet lane" (a rural bicycle street, possibly closed to through motoring except keyholders) or more expensively by a cycleway alongside an A road.
It's not a dismissive urbanist attitude. You left off the key sentence in that paragraph
On a related note, a general strategy for expected travel time to schools, shops, post office, and other essential businesses should be developed and supported with funding.
The point of my post was that villages need services improved before supporting active travel can be successful. I was writing with experience of living in a large rural village with crap public transport and limited post office services in the local Co-op, where the 'post office' under constant threat of closure.
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by mjr »

Vorpal wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 11:34am It's not a dismissive urbanist attitude. You left off the key sentence in that paragraph
On a related note, a general strategy for expected travel time to schools, shops, post office, and other essential businesses should be developed and supported with funding.
The point of my post was that villages need services improved before supporting active travel can be successful. I was writing with experience of living in a large rural village with crap public transport and limited post office services in the local Co-op, where the 'post office' under constant threat of closure.
I disagree with that, too! Most villages will not support post offices or shops in the forseeable future. What we need now (actually yesterday) is strong active travel links to the neighbouring larger villages that do - which also would support those villages by bolstering their shops and services.

Subsidising a load of nonviable small village stores won't do as much for the money.
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Re: Obesity epidemic and our addiction to oil

Post by Vorpal »

mjr wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 12:14pm
Vorpal wrote: 9 Apr 2021, 11:34am It's not a dismissive urbanist attitude. You left off the key sentence in that paragraph
On a related note, a general strategy for expected travel time to schools, shops, post office, and other essential businesses should be developed and supported with funding.
The point of my post was that villages need services improved before supporting active travel can be successful. I was writing with experience of living in a large rural village with crap public transport and limited post office services in the local Co-op, where the 'post office' under constant threat of closure.
I disagree with that, too! Most villages will not support post offices or shops in the forseeable future. What we need now (actually yesterday) is strong active travel links to the neighbouring larger villages that do - which also would support those villages by bolstering their shops and services.

Subsidising a load of nonviable small village stores won't do as much for the money.
First of all, a post office is a service, not a store. If post offices are not going to be available to people within easy walking or cycling distance, more postal delivery services need to be restored, and people need to be able to buy stamps and special packaging within easy walking and cycling distance.

Secondly my statement is general, not necessarily meaning that every village should a bunch of nonviable small businesses, but that there is a balance between providing opportunities to shop or purchase goods, and the distance that people are willing to travel by active travel, public transport and/or some combination.

If people have a choice between driving 20 minutes from a village into the closest town and using an hour or more on walking + public transport or cycling, what do you think they will do? Many 'neighbouring villages' have also lost their shops and post office. Even supposing there is one, many village shops have been downsized to the point that it can be difficult to purchase everything a family needs for meals for a week, let alone household goods or clothing.

Lots of studies have found that distance and time are important factors in travel mode choice (e.g. Heinen et al., 2010; Næss et al., 2017) and the solutions have to be addressed holistically. It doesn't do any good to ensure that there is a brilliant network of pedestrian and cycling infrastructure connecting villages, if (as an example) people are unwilling to travel more than 20 minutes to do their shopping, and many/most people do not have shopping within a 20 minute walk or cycle.

The same thing goes for schools. The tendency to consolidate schools and move away from the concept of catchment has meant that many fewer children than even 10 or 20 years ago live within walking distance of school. While it is certainly true that many children who are currently driven to school could walk, there are also many for whom walking or cycling is impractical, even if they were provided with a safe route. Because councils do not need to consider transport costs or travel planning for their schools, it is quite easy to put the burden on the families, and this is unacceptable.
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