Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Vorpal
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby Vorpal » 20 Jan 2016, 7:04pm

Shootist wrote:
An interesting post, none of which I could disagree with. However, the part that interests me is the denial stage, and what leads some people to alcoholism. While many alcoholics do start young, I believe that many will start later in life and I think this can be due to socialising or working in a drinking environment. I see no reason to suppose that many yuppie casual heroin users will not, in spite of their best intentions, proceed to addiction, and I can only therefore think that the same could apply to drinkers. Denial is easy to understand if you clearly have an alcohol problem but you are the only one who can't accept that. But what of the person who 'only' drinks three or four pints every night and suffers no untoward social problems? He may continue for many years without addiction but somewhere, hidden in plain sight, there will be a crossover point, but how can he tell? He won't wake up one morning as say to himself "I'm an alcoholic." because nothing has changed from when he wasn't. Nobody, including him, will know where that transition happened but he's hooked for life. While alcoholism can indeed be regarded as a disease, it is mostly self inflicted because people often do not want to know their own weaknesses.

It's also worth remembering that there are different forms of alcoholism. The person who must drink every day, the person who can leave it for one, two, or three months maybe and then goes on a bender for a weekend or even a week. I have to wonder about the mentality of someone willing to tread that path in the face of evidence of the harm it causes, which far outweighs any proposed benefits. To suggest that the government has some sort of hidden agenda, perhaps an increase in tax funds, in publishing health guidelines on consumption is, to be blunt, stupid. Such a suggestion implies they are lying to the public for some secret benefit. One of the symptoms of alcoholism can be paranoia. Another can be an inability to think rationally. Don't light bonfires with petrol.


I'm not sure; I don't think that the researchers are either. There are several theories. One is http://www.therichest.com/buzz/study-sh ... /?view=all

Another relates alcoholism to other addictions, and dopamine. There is a long-standing, and generally accepted theory that addicts have a disorder of their dopamine system, but this doesn't hold up with all addictive drugs.

So, the answer is.... we don't know, or not completely.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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beardy
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby beardy » 20 Jan 2016, 10:31pm

Shootist wrote:
SpannerGeek wrote:If you read my post, the only scientific proof of alcohol intoxication is reduced motor skills. Whether it makes us happy or sad or angry is purely subjective. Many psychologists will say that these are simply facets we have been able to suppress and that alcohol merely disinhibits these emotions.

Which again, is a process of perception. Happiness after all is just a construct of the mind. It's just an idea and it should be clear by now how unreliable they can be...


What part of motor skills cause a person to end up in bed with another, having unprotected sex, starting another life, and/or getting a sexually transmitted disease? That is most often a lapse of judgement, one they wouldn't make of sober.


I can do that while perfectly sober, if given the opportunity.

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby beardy » 20 Jan 2016, 10:39pm

Alcoholism is a disease. Those with alcoholism have altered brain function and structure, and part of the disease is denial.


How do you tell the difference between an alcoholic in denial and a heavy drinker who likes to drink.

In my days as young man, I mixed in very alcohol centered society. It was even subsidised to insignificant cost at many times. I was regularly drinking for over 12 hour periods. I doubt that it was sustainable. However as soon as I left that phase of my life and became a motorcycle courier, I stopped drinking overnight, we were a non-alcohol culture there, as we needed our licences.

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby Vorpal » 21 Jan 2016, 6:48am

beardy wrote:
Alcoholism is a disease. Those with alcoholism have altered brain function and structure, and part of the disease is denial.


How do you tell the difference between an alcoholic in denial and a heavy drinker who likes to drink.

In my days as young man, I mixed in very alcohol centered society. It was even subsidised to insignificant cost at many times. I was regularly drinking for over 12 hour periods. I doubt that it was sustainable. However as soon as I left that phase of my life and became a motorcycle courier, I stopped drinking overnight, we were a non-alcohol culture there, as we needed our licences.


I'm not completely sure. I think that sometimes, the only way to tell is to try and quit, and see how it goes. Someone who can, as you did, just stop, or switch from heavy drinking to moderate social drinking, effortlessly is probably not an alcoholic, while someone who cannot quit, or returns to heavy drinking without wanting to is alcoholic. Most alcholics try to quit, some even succeed for a time.

Also, a specialist in addiction or alcoholism can often discern from a conversation whether someone is likely to be an alcoholic rather than a heavy drinker, but I don't know what things they look for.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
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Edwards
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby Edwards » 23 Jan 2016, 10:34am

It has recently been reported that the Bars in the Palace of Westminster are subsidised by £8 million at tax payers.

So what does that say about the drunks who run this country?
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2016, 10:50am

Edwards wrote:It has recently been reported that the Bars in the Palace of Westminster are subsidised by £8 million at tax payers.

So what does that say about the drunks who run this country?


I'd have to ask the question why should there even be bars serving alcohol?
Let alone whether they should be subsidised or not.
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beardy
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby beardy » 23 Jan 2016, 11:44am

Some Dutch courage is required before walking through the "division" which furthers your career instead of the "division" that you believed in before entering the party machine.

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby reohn2 » 23 Jan 2016, 4:55pm

beardy wrote:Some Dutch courage is required before walking through the "division" which furthers your career instead of the "division" that you believed in before entering the party machine.


Either way it's a disastrous way to run a country :? .
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Phileas
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby Phileas » 25 Jan 2016, 5:50pm

As a follow up to one of the sub-topics of this thread, this recent BBC tv program is rather pertinent:
The Brain with David Eagleman, 1. What Is Reality?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06y8hyr via @bbciplayer

A very brief summary is that most of what we experience as reality from one moment to the next is an internal mental model of the real world which is updated piecemeal by the relatively sparse data received through our senses.

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby RickH » 25 Jan 2016, 8:57pm

Phileas wrote:As a follow up to one of the sub-topics of this thread, this recent BBC tv program is rather pertinent:
The Brain with David Eagleman, 1. What Is Reality?: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06y8hyr via @bbciplayer

A very brief summary is that most of what we experience as reality from one moment to the next is an internal mental model of the real world which is updated piecemeal by the relatively sparse data received through our senses.

Thanks for the link I'll watch it later.

Your comment reminds me of conversations I've had with my tandem stoker, who has a deteriorating sight condition (now little central vision & poor colour perception in the remainder), about whether some things she has "seen" are objects she has actually observed or whether her brain has largely made it up from the limited data received combined with what she has learned to expect the world around her to be like.

If we were always correct in our observations then optical illusions wouldn't work.

Rick.

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby g.meredith » 12 Feb 2016, 3:37pm

Gave up alcohol three years ago. One of the best decisions I have made. I am no longer forking money over to what is an grossly irresponsible industry.

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Mick F
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby Mick F » 12 Feb 2016, 3:59pm

I've got the fire lit.
Stacks of hot water and I've just had a deep hot bath .......................... and a glass of wine. :D
Out of the bath now (as you can tell because I'm on a computer) and I've poured myself a second glass.

I actually do not want to give up alcohol, though I can appreciate and understand people who do and the reasons they do. I don't have an issue with alcohol - I enjoy it and it relaxes me.
Mick F. Cornwall

hidingfromheadwinds
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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby hidingfromheadwinds » 28 Aug 2019, 4:24pm

From being a casual drinker (1-2 cans a night), I have now cut down to 1 day a week if at all and the difference in my legs is amazing!
Now I notice I am sleeping better and my legs are recovering much quicker!

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby LittleGreyCat » 28 Aug 2019, 9:15pm

I gave up drinking once.
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Worst 30 minutes of my life! :lol:

But slightly more seriously I tend to ignore any guidelines because I suspect that there is very little solid research to back it up.
I tend to be guided by what my body tries to tell me.
I don't like to feel the effects of the previous day when I wake up, for instance.

I'm finding that white wine spritzers are a good compromise between drinking loads of water and having a glass of white wine or so.
At least I am not drinking just booze to quench my thirst (especially not good with wine).

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Re: Alcohol Consumption Guidelines: Do you care?

Postby NUKe » 29 Aug 2019, 4:44pm

LittleGreyCat wrote:
But slightly more seriously I tend to ignore any guidelines because I suspect that there is very little solid research to back it up.
I tend to be guided by what my body tries to tell me.
.

Not Quite the same thing but there was a very good article in the New Scientist which looked at why nutrition science is flawed. And came to very similar conclusions to yours to just ignore the studies
NUKe
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