Cycling to lose weight

Vorpal
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby Vorpal » 13 Jul 2017, 6:47am

It's easy to say that it's just down to calories in versus calories burned, and while there is some truth in it, it also makes a difference what we eat, and individuals' metabolisms vary. I gained a lot of weight with my first pregnancy, and had some difficulty losing it afterwards. I tried to track calories, and it got me nowhere. I lost a few pounds and then stopped losing weight. I assumed that my lack of success was because of a lack of accuracy, and I tried various things, including just taking the most conservative of several possible estimates, still to no avail.

On the other hand, when I just ate normally, (with some care about how much cake and biscuits I ate) and increased my exercise substantially, I lost the weight I wanted to.
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Audax67
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby Audax67 » 13 Jul 2017, 10:03am

When I was trying to lose weight back in the 90s I dropped 4 kilos quite quickly and then hit a plateau - nothing I could do would budge it. Then we went on a walking holiday in the Alps, with good solid breakfasts, picnic lunches and a 4-course meal every evening. When we got back I had lost 4 kilos and lost another 9 over the next 6 months.

Several factors re. the Alps: a change of rhythm and environment from my usual surroundings, no handy fridge, but above all fat-burning exercise. You can't walk 8 hours with 2500 metres of climbing every day if you do it flat out, so you keep your heart in the sub-aerobic range where fat is burned as a priority. Our picnic lunches were all bread, cheese, salami and fruit - quite a bit of fat and a moderate amount of carb, but we burnt it all off.

So: if you want to do it all on the bike, drop your speed and ride longer, a five- to six-hour excursion once a week if you can make the time. It works. Otherwise, get away from home to somewhere mountainous (Pennine Way?) and walk.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 10:41am

nope .... lazy response that one, I was very careful in how I logged my food and very consistent.

You clearly do believe a calorie of fat is processed same way as a calorie of carb. It is not and all science shows that.

Why not watch Robert Lustig's Youtube vid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxyxcTZccsE

Spend 90 mins and come back to this ?

Because in all this debate you forget about the role of Leptin and Insulin.

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 10:43am

oh and one other thing, losing weight can be done calories in/out but it is about sustainable weight loss, i.e.. do you keep it off once you sop resorcin calories or indeed reduce exercise time

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby meic » 14 Jul 2017, 10:51am

I am guessing that this is aimed at me as all the other posts between dont really fit it.

Yes, it was a lazy response from me. That is the beauty of the law of conservation of energy it makes so many seemingly difficult problems just disappear with it simple undeniable power.

I can totally ignore any distractions about calories source etc. I dont need the view
You clearly do believe a calorie of fat is processed same way as a calorie of carb. It is not and all science shows that.
which you falsely ascribe to me.

There are complexities in weight gain/loss and it isnt simple but it IS an absolute fact about calories in being less than calories out meaning weight loss, unless you are adding an unwritten condition that the calories are ingested and absorbing thermal energy or practicing photosynthesis.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby bigjim » 14 Jul 2017, 10:57am

ianrobo wrote:oh and one other thing, losing weight can be done calories in/out but it is about sustainable weight loss, i.e.. do you keep it off once you sop resorcin calories or indeed reduce exercise time

Ahh exercise time. Is that the problem? How many people go for a ride for say two hours and come in and sit around for much of the day because they have "done their bit"? I can be very guilty of this. Most of the non cyclist slim people I know are the ones that are always busy and doing something. They don't sit around that much at all. But they don't do any particular exercise either. They are just on their feet a lot. Doing stuff.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby Vorpal » 14 Jul 2017, 12:04pm

ianrobo wrote:oh and one other thing, losing weight can be done calories in/out but it is about sustainable weight loss, i.e.. do you keep it off once you sop resorcin calories or indeed reduce exercise time

Once I lost weight, I did okay with keeping it off, as long as I eat and exercise reasonably. For me, that means around 5 hours per week of exercise, pudding no more than once a week, and not spending too much time sitting on my backside.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 1:17pm

meic wrote:I am guessing that this is aimed at me as all the other posts between dont really fit it.

Yes, it was a lazy response from me. That is the beauty of the law of conservation of energy it makes so many seemingly difficult problems just disappear with it simple undeniable power.

I can totally ignore any distractions about calories source etc. I dont need the view
You clearly do believe a calorie of fat is processed same way as a calorie of carb. It is not and all science shows that.
which you falsely ascribe to me.

There are complexities in weight gain/loss and it isnt simple but it IS an absolute fact about calories in being less than calories out meaning weight loss, unless you are adding an unwritten condition that the calories are ingested and absorbing thermal energy or practicing photosynthesis.


That reply was to MJR, when I replied I missed the further posts, apologies ....

as for CICO it can work if exercise high and food low but that is no sustainable over the long term. The law of thermal dynamics misses though when it comes to food as energy is used when processing food. As I said watch the Vid in the link then lets debate that.

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 1:20pm

Audax67 wrote:Several factors re. the Alps: a change of rhythm and environment from my usual surroundings, no handy fridge, but above all fat-burning exercise. You can't walk 8 hours with 2500 metres of climbing every day if you do it flat out, so you keep your heart in the sub-aerobic range where fat is burned as a priority. Our picnic lunches were all bread, cheese, salami and fruit - quite a bit of fat and a moderate amount of carb, but we burnt it all off.


Bingo !

The bread of course is no the processed rubbish we have here with added sugars. and the 'med diet' is what you are talking about and that is nowhere near the dietary guidelines we have in the UK.

I am LCHF/Keto and works for me but guidelines state 60% carbs and most could cut half of them increase fat do no more exercise and weight loss for same calories ....

And then you talk about basic MAF training which I find personally fantastic.

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby meic » 14 Jul 2017, 1:26pm

The law of thermal dynamics misses though

If by that you mean there is more to consider than just the calorific value of your food then I would not dispute that.
If on the other hand you are still maintaining that you can get more calories out than you put in, in contradiction to the law of conservation of energy, then you are actively disproving your own theory, with no need for my intervention.
I am hardly going to waste time watching a video which is being advertised as demonstrating that the law of conservation of energy is wrong. Because if something that unlikely had been demonstrated, it could not have remained hidden on a youtube by a TV presenter.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 1:52pm

meic wrote:
The law of thermal dynamics misses though

If by that you mean there is more to consider than just the calorific value of your food then I would not dispute that.
If on the other hand you are still maintaining that you can get more calories out than you put in, in contradiction to the law of conservation of energy, then you are actively disproving your own theory, with no need for my intervention.
I am hardly going to waste time watching a video which is being advertised as demonstrating that the law of conservation of energy is wrong. Because if something that unlikely had been demonstrated, it could not have remained hidden on a youtube by a TV presenter.


miss the point, it is about the excess calories you put in and what happens to them above BMR and exercise

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby meic » 14 Jul 2017, 2:02pm

On reflection, in the short term at least, calories out can exceed calories in at the same time as weight gain, if somebody is undergoing a composition change.
So if a calorific loss is accompanied by a composition change (eg increased water retention) then the material burned off for fuel could be exceeded by the "inert" matter acquired by the body.
Clearly composition change cant go on forever and one assumes the original aim was to lose fat rather than weight. People using "normal" diets, like cutting back on quantity while maintaining a balanced diet will be keeping a good body composition. Those on fad diets could well be forcing a composition change and modern processed foods may have meant people were starting with a poor body composition.

Things like this are avoided (if they even ever happen) by just eating a balanced diet and keeping reasonably active. Not by resorting to fads and complex calculations.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby ianrobo » 14 Jul 2017, 2:05pm

meic wrote:ONot by resorting to fads and complex calculations.


What is a fad, I would argue a 60% based carb die is a fad of modern times my grandparents would never have eaten that and heir generation were far less heavy and far less obese.

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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby bigjim » 14 Jul 2017, 2:07pm

ianrobo wrote:
meic wrote:ONot by resorting to fads and complex calculations.


What is a fad, I would argue a 60% based carb die is a fad of modern times my grandparents would never have eaten that and heir generation were far less heavy and far less obese.

They would have moved around more. Walk to the bus stop, walk to the shops etc. More manual labour at home and work. No laptops or 24 hour TV to keep them on the couch.
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Re: Cycling to loose weight

Postby meic » 14 Jul 2017, 2:12pm

ianrobo wrote:
meic wrote:
The law of thermal dynamics misses though

If by that you mean there is more to consider than just the calorific value of your food then I would not dispute that.
If on the other hand you are still maintaining that you can get more calories out than you put in, in contradiction to the law of conservation of energy, then you are actively disproving your own theory, with no need for my intervention.
I am hardly going to waste time watching a video which is being advertised as demonstrating that the law of conservation of energy is wrong. Because if something that unlikely had been demonstrated, it could not have remained hidden on a youtube by a TV presenter.


miss the point, it is about the excess calories you put in and what happens to them above BMR and exercise


I almost certainly did miss your point because I am solely concentrating on MY point. You made a claim that those of us who think "calories in being less than calories out means weight loss" are wrong. I say this defies the law of conservation of energy. That extra energy has to come from somewhere.
On reflection the other half of the condition was weight change which though a proxy for burning and storing fat it isnt always the same thing.
We are all well aware of the effect of acquiring and losing muscle and it may happen with water and bone, lung tissue and blood volume too. So, I accept there may be diets where calories in being less than calories out result in weight gain but they must be temporary and possibly damaging changes and certainly not the main one that people have as their aim, ie burning fat.
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