Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

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meic
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby meic » 16 Nov 2017, 12:39am

2 kilograms isnt going to make much difference to your performance or fitness levels.
You could improve your fitness much more by fitting inappropriate (higher) gearing or by using more sturdy tyres, not a bad idea this time of year.

Buying a new bike is all well and good but if you are expecting a serious or even noticeable benefit from having lost 2kg on the bike's weight alone, prepare to be disappointed.

I knew I wasnt going to get much benefit when moving from a 1980 531 frame to a new lighter titanium bike that it wouldnt work miracles but I wasnt ready for the fact that it was actually a tiny bit slower! Even though I live and ride in the sort of very hilly terrain where weight matters more than it does for other places.
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Tigerbiten
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Tigerbiten » 16 Nov 2017, 2:39am

I'm like Mick F ......
I'm at my most fit at the end of a long tour when I've been lugging all my camping gear up hills day after day.
I'm at my fastest just after I unload all the camping gear.
But I soon get used to the lighter weight and my speed slowly drops as I lose fitness.

As for a new bike .....
It may help your fitness if you get out more, but not by a lot.
Also I don't think you'll save the full 2kg as the new bike is probably weighed without mudguards which you need for winter riding.
Plus the gearing, I don't know what you're running now ......
But unless you go somewhere specialized, you'll probably be offered a 50/34 compact double and an 11-28 block as thats fairly standard for a "road" bike.
Which is great for high gears (+110") but mostly useless if you want/need low gears (sub-27").
I think most bikes nowadays are over geared by around 10% for mere mortals ..... :lol:

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Mick F
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Mick F » 16 Nov 2017, 6:46am

There's a reason that the Royal Marines go yomping over the moors with a full 56lb pack on their backs.
The Army do the same.
We have a friend ex-Army and he would tell you that as well as their 56lb packs, they used to put house-bricks in there too as well as carrying a GPMG. (General Purpose Machine Gun)

As TC has said, I would carry a concrete block in my trailer. I would do that for every single ride for months before a long ride. It gets you fit fit fit, and gets you used to carrying weight.

Try this.
This'll get you fit, especially if you find some nice long hills.
109_Block_1.jpg
Mick F. Cornwall

tatanab
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby tatanab » 16 Nov 2017, 7:29am

drossall wrote:
horizon wrote:10 kg is a seriously heavy bike and akin, as you say yourself, to a lump of lead.

10 kg is what, 22lb? That's not light, but 531 racing bikes were around the 20-22lb mark. Hardly a lump of lead. More like a hollow lump of high-end steel, with very thin sides.

As others have said, a lighter bike won't make you fitter, because that's about the effort you put in. You'll probably go faster. You might enjoy riding it more.

But 22lb bikes are fantastic to ride. I should know - I've got some.

Just ride!
I agree with all of that. In my racing days, almost 50 years ago, my 531 machines would have been around that weight, and they were only used for racing since we had a heavier hack for general use. My club use 531 machines with mudguards, carrier, heavier wheels etc would align pretty much with my modern(ish) 725 Roberts tourer at 27lb. My current lightest machine is my 653 Harry Quinn fixed wheel at 21lb. My daily use ride, loaded with lights - saddlebag- tools- waterproofs and other junk, comes in at 43lb.

Go for comfort. If it weighs a little more it really does not matter. Comfort will get you out riding more often and therefore you will gain in fitness.

KFT
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby KFT » 16 Nov 2017, 9:43am

tatanab wrote:
Go for comfort. If it weighs a little more it really does not matter. Comfort will get you out riding more often and therefore you will gain in fitness.


Totally agree with this

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Mick F
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Mick F » 16 Nov 2017, 10:19am

What about comfortable and quite heavy?
That'll get you fitter than "comfortable and weighs a little more". :wink:
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby reohn2 » 16 Nov 2017, 10:21am

IMO Si nailed it on page 1,the new carbon confection bike is more likely to be about 1kg lighter when the necessary bits are attached,pedals,bottle cages,etc.
FWIW as I've got older I appreciate comfort over speed,my Salsa Vaya weighs 12.5kg with mudguards,pedals & bottle cages.My Thorn Audax Mk3 weighed 10.5kg similarly equipped,a 2kg difference.
Tested 5 or 6 times over a 70mile course with a couple of hills in it in similar conditions the difference in speed was 1mph average,and whilst the Thorn was a comfortable bike the Vaya beat it hands down for comfort,that's why the Thorn languished unused in the bike shed for 2 years before I sold it to a forum member.
To add to that,about three years ago I rode about 10 miles with a chap about own age (62 at the time),he was on a £2k Willier carbon bike,I was on the Vaya.I asked him what he thought of it his answer was "if I'm honest it's bloody stiff and uncomfortable but I've bought it now" before we parted he "complained" that I was riding over bad bits of road that he had to ride around.
Anecdotal tale yes,but it's stuck in my mind.
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thirdcrank
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Nov 2017, 10:37am

... I also remember hearing the commentators talking in this years TdF about the difference in speed between current bikes and those of the '70s. Someone had calculated that the difference in speed only equated to around 1 hour for the top riders over the whole of the race - around 0.1 kph.


There's more to losing time in a race like the TdeF than bike weight, of course, but I see that Roman Kreuziger finished in 24th place this year at 59'58". While a lighter bike might not have saved any of the time he lost, the implication seems to be that Chiis Froome might have finished a lot lower down had he been handicapped with a heavier bike.

For many of us, being timed with a sundial would make no difference but the seconds are important to some. Over a stage of 200km, 0.1 kph = 2 kms, quite some winning margin.

fatbelly33
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby fatbelly33 » 16 Nov 2017, 11:05am

Thanks for all the replies guy's they've been most helpful. I decided to hold off buying a new Bike instead I'm thinking of upgrading my wheels to Mavic Ksyrium Elite at a cost of £409. https://www.evanscycles.com/mavic-ksyri ... t-EV246119
What do you guy's think of these?

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bigjim
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby bigjim » 16 Nov 2017, 11:12am

I'd like to know what 531 framed bike weighs 10kg? That is a light bike. Brand new Ali framed bikes are about 10.5kg.
The best, fastest rider in one of the clubs I ride with turns up on a Surley LHT with huge tyres. He leaves us all for dust and rides 100+ miles at a time. He is only in his late 30s of course, but nobody can stay with him when he goes for it. He always rides heavy steel bikes. But he also rides very low gears and to watch him ride, he is always spinning like mad or it seems that way. Maybe that is the secret. I can remember Armstrong having have to be taught to spin so he could outride Ullrich who was a big high gear pusher. Also spinning is better for the knees.
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landsurfer
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby landsurfer » 16 Nov 2017, 11:15am

Jim are you confusing KG with LBS ?
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Vorpal » 16 Nov 2017, 11:31am

fatbelly33 wrote:Thanks for all the replies guy's they've been most helpful. I decided to hold off buying a new Bike instead I'm thinking of upgrading my wheels to Mavic Ksyrium Elite at a cost of £409. https://www.evanscycles.com/mavic-ksyri ... t-EV246119
What do you guy's think of these?

I'm a trendy consumer. Just look at my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

What do you hope to accomplish with new wheels?

The last time I got new wheels, I bought a nice pair of hand-built ones with DT Swiss rims / spokes, and Shimano hubs. But I don't buy wheels on weight. I buy something that will take a comfortable (i.e. wider) tyre, and I can ride over kerbs and (light duty) off road, if I want to. Something that will last well for a variety of conditions & on a commute.

The Krysiums won't be as sturdy as your Cosmos. Other than that, I dont think that there's anything wrong with the Ksyriums. But, if I wanted to upgrade to a lighter wheel for a road bike, I'd still likely go for a hand built wheel.

It's important to decide what you want to accomplish with new wheels before you buy, though. If you just want something lighter for 'feels fast' and handling, by all means, go for it.

p.s. 'new wheels are a good upgrade', or 'your wheels are on the heavy side' is a common way that salespeople in shops get the punters to spend money; maybe their margins are better on wheels than most other items?
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Bowedw » 16 Nov 2017, 11:32am

There is clearly a need for two bikes here(or more). When you enjoy cycling and do so in all weathers you would appreciate a lighter bike on fine days and then for general riding a practical bike with mudguards, pannier rack, lights. It would be a mistake to adopt the average car owners mentality of wanting to change just to have a newer number plate, self opening tailgate, etc . Impressing the neighbours is also high on their list.
After you have added a lightweight to your stable then maybe a Fixie, mountain bike and in my case an upright trike.
Not felt the need for a small wheeled folder yet! Must quickly dismiss the thought that has just popped into my head, I could make use of my old fogey bus pass and also travel on some rail routes in winter for free and ride home. Now which is the best folder that packs into and emerges from a suitcase like a rabbit from a hat!
Electric bike is not on the agenda for many years I hope.

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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby bigjim » 16 Nov 2017, 2:02pm

landsurfer wrote:Jim are you confusing KG with LBS ?

???
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Mick F
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Re: Heavy Bikes make for fitter cyclists???

Postby Mick F » 16 Nov 2017, 2:27pm

bigjim wrote:I'd like to know what 531 framed bike weighs 10kg?
Mine weighs 23lbs including mudguards.
Exactly in the guise of the photo above .............. not counting the trailer and concrete block. :wink:

Campag Triple Ergos, Campag pedals, Campag chain, Brooks saddle, Cinneli 'bars, Campag hubs, Ambrosio rims, Vittoria Rubino Pro tyres ....... no saddle bag or water in the bottle.

23lbs = 10.43Kg
Mick F. Cornwall