Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

What diet do you eat?

Poll ended at 3 Jan 2018, 5:55pm

Omnivore
15
36%
Carnivore
3
7%
Flexetarier
2
5%
Vegetarian with milk, eggs, fish
9
21%
Vegetarian with milk, eggs
9
21%
Vegan
2
5%
Stone-Age
1
2%
Other
1
2%
 
Total votes: 42

brynpoeth
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2018, 8:14am

Insects are animals of course, a carnivore might eat one cow in a lifetime, or many many thousand insects :?
I understand insects are commercially available to eat now
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

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meic
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby meic » 7 Sep 2018, 9:38am

Tangled Metal wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I tend to agree though don't blame people claiming to be vegan as they're trying a much as they can to lead that livestyle,so claiming veganism is honourable IMO.
I was vegetarian for 20 odd years but have begun to eat fish and eggs over the last four or five years.
I'm sure your chest feels better for getting that of it :wink:

Oh yes! I don't mind people trying but that is all they're doing. They are achieving a lot towards being a vegan but I believe it's an impossible task. In some ways it needs a new name IMHO. Reduced animal exploitation diet (READ). I don't have an idea what but perhaps give it a new name and use the acronym instead. It's a reduced animal product diet.

The term vegan covers it quite well, there should be another term for the ridiculously excessive standards that you feel anybody who claims to be a vegan should meet. It could be called TMDSVD. I have to-date never seen my vegan friends licking their Brooks saddle or having a quick chew on their thigh length leather boots.

If somebody happens to also consider processed foods a bad thing then they are much more in control of their diet and apart from the odd caterpillar in the cabbages, swallowing a fly while cycling etc a vegan diet is quite possible.
If eating an apple with a maggot in it disqualifies somebody from being a vegetarian in your mind you will have a vocabulary which is so restrictive that it is of no use.
In answering these questions about diet and similarly when people ask "what would you like to eat" people are actually trying to communicate an answer to that question, rather than making a religious statement for your personal judgement to be cast on.
Just like saying I am Welsh can be correct because I am not French, English etc. It doesnt mean that all my ancestors are Welsh, I have never left Wales and that I speak nothing but Welsh.
So if asked am I a vegetarian on a form or booking a meal? I say yes because it is much simpler to forgo the chance of some fish or prawns than to spend half an hour explaining (or justifying) my specific food preferences when ticking a simple box avoids being offered something I certainly do not wish to eat. It isnt a statement under oath or a religious communion in that case I would state pescetarian, with occasional lapses by accident, negligence or misunderstanding.
We are in the health and fitness section of the forum, that is the context in which the question was asked, not the moral philosophy section.
Yma o Hyd

Vorpal
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Vorpal » 7 Sep 2018, 9:53am

meic wrote:So if asked am I a vegetarian on a form or booking a meal? I say yes because it is much simpler to forgo the chance of some fish or prawns than to spend half an hour explaining (or justifying) my specific food preferences when ticking a simple box avoids being offered something I certainly do not wish to eat. It isnt a statement under oath or a religious communion in that case I would state pescetarian, with occasional lapses by accident, negligence or misunderstanding.

That pretty well describes my approach, as well. Although if I bite into something and discover meat, I don't eat it. I may have had chicken broth a few times without realising it.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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meic
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby meic » 7 Sep 2018, 10:13am

mattsccm wrote:Genuine question, never really answered. To those who don't eat meat for "humanitarian" or environmental reasons. Is there any objections to natural or accidentally dead animals? Seems to me that to waste it is not morally defensible. Let's think road kill deer maybe? Perfectly good to eat.


I agree it is entirely logical not to waste good food.
I also wonder why vultures and other carrion eaters are despised but creatures which actually kill their prey are admired.

On the other hand our revulsion probably has a good origin through having helped with our survival.
Exactly how old is that corpse?
Did that rabbit get hit by a car because it was already weak through illness?
Why waste all that juicy dead human flesh? We dont eat each other out of revulsion but it probably is a good survival trait to prevent the accumulation of toxins at the top of the food chain.

That same revulsion occurs in plenty of people when finding a corpse left at the roadside.
I dont think that roadkill ever goes to waste though, the local wildlife soon put it to good use.
Yma o Hyd

Bonefishblues
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Bonefishblues » 7 Sep 2018, 10:22am

I'm becoming a soupatarion in recent weeks, having rediscovered the Joy of Soup.

(Well that, and being able to buy premium fresh soups for 50p in the Staff Shop of the food manufacturer I'm working for!)

ianrobo
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby ianrobo » 7 Sep 2018, 3:57pm

brynpoeth wrote:ND reports: the number of vegetarians and vegans in Germany has doubled in the last ten years
To 4% :o

Meat consumption has hardly fallen, it is 59kg per head
About 5% of males really love dead animals and eat about 150kg of meat a year

Meat and milk provide 17% of energy in the diet but use 77% of the agricultural land

Going to see a film called *Cowspiracy* about this soon


Would not bother it is full of Vegan propaganda ...

like how Animal reared products are destroying the planet - false

Like how humans aware designed to eat only vegetation - false - cows were and humans feeding cows animal meat was disgusting

Also the myth somehow vegan diets are healthier - wrong

I will post this here from a friend about the myths on the green side, who is doing a phd in chemistry BTW

The flaw in the vegan argument that it takes more water and diesel to grow a kg of beef than to grow a kg of broccoli, is that humans don't eat kilograms of food, we eat kilo-calories of food.
Energy is our #2 nutrient behind Oxygen. Even water is less important than energy. In some rare cases we can even make enough metabolically to not need to drink water. But run out of energy and it's lights out.

Let's say you need 1500 kCal/day of energy from food just to keep the lights on.
1 kg of Australian grass fed beef is 5620 kCal, or 3.75 days worth of energy
1 kg of Broccoli is 340 kCal, or roughly 23% of a days worth of energy

Let's look at it the other way, how much of each food do you need to get adequate energy for a day
Broccoli: 4.411 kg Aussie Beef: 266 g

And if you are IR you might want to know how much incidental glucose that would be in that meal;
Broccoli: 292.9 g Aussie Beef: 10.6 g

But let's say you have a wonderful alternate source of energy, maybe you've eaten so many plants that you now photosynthesize.
Humans still need protein intake to support protein turnover. Let's say you're 50 kg of lean mass, that's roughly 50g of protein you need or you will start scavenging your own lean tissue.
Broccoli: 1.7 kgs Aussie Beef: 130 g

Oh and while we're eating kilos of broccoli remember it is 89% water, that is water you are taking from the land to micturate down your toilet eventually into the ocean. Aussie Beef is only 31% water and you need to eat a 12th to a 16th as much, as you would if you were living on broccoli.
Source: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/23297
Source: https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/11090


Fine, if you have a personal belief eating animals is morally wrong, I have no issue with that but if you use any of the other arguments use evidence to back it up and not studies that are based on mice and rats who guess what ?? are nonhumans !

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meic
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby meic » 7 Sep 2018, 4:05pm

You dont eat broccoli for its energy content or protein. A bit more subtle than using celery as a bogus comparison but still bogus.
Now if somebody was to repeat those calculations for energy source foods like nuts, seeds or grains then it would have some actual useful meaning. As it is, it a false comparison deliberately constructed to mislead.

The water example is even more stupid. It is the water that the foodstuff consumes not the amount it contains, which causes environmental problems. The fact that broccoli contains more water is not bad for either consumer or environment.
Yma o Hyd

brynpoeth
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Sep 2018, 4:21pm

Broccoli is tasty too, but what about rice? Producing it uses lots of water but on terraces water is reused many times

Enormous amounts of soya beans are grown in Brazil to feed cattle in US, Europe etc, every day so many hectares of rainforest are destroyed

I am a vegetarian, found myself eating less and less meat, not sure why, does there have to be a reason?
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

Vorpal
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Vorpal » 7 Sep 2018, 7:45pm

Unsurprisingly this kind of thing has been studied, and what comes out on top, in terms of efficiency are vegetarian diets, and omnivorous diets with limited meat intake.

https://qz.com/749443/being-vegan-isnt- ... you-think/

p.s. it is a bit silly to compare broccholi to beef, as if that's all people eat
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom


landsurfer
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby landsurfer » 16 Sep 2018, 7:22am

Bonefishblues wrote:I'm becoming a soupatarion in recent weeks, having rediscovered the Joy of Soup.


+1 ... and suddenly, without warning .... there is Soup !

Lunch every day now and all cycling cafe stops .... so many soups, so little time ... :D
The Road Goes On Forever.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Sep 2018, 8:08am

landsurfer wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:I'm becoming a soupatarion in recent weeks, having rediscovered the Joy of Soup.


+1 ... and suddenly, without warning .... there is Soup !

Lunch every day now and all cycling cafe stops .... so many soups, so little time ... :D

I have no pecuniary advantage in recommending the Waitrose Mulligatawny fresh soup. It's honestly a full curry in a plastic container and absolutely delicious. Honourable mentions for Morrisons Pea and Ham Hock and also their Mexican Bean.

brynpoeth
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby brynpoeth » 16 Sep 2018, 4:29pm

Home-made lentil soup with parsnips is the new porridge

-"This soup is lovely! Did you open the tin yourself?" :wink:
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott

Bonefishblues
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Bonefishblues » 16 Sep 2018, 5:51pm

No, but I'm supporting several hundred people who did.

In all seriousness, eating them at the factory gate as it were is an absolute revelation - you see how much flavour is lost from their being held in chill at the retailer.
Last edited by Bonefishblues on 16 Sep 2018, 8:08pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Vege, Vegan or Carnivore

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 16 Sep 2018, 7:52pm

Meatatarian, and proud.
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