Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

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NUKe
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby NUKe » 16 Sep 2018, 5:49pm

Seriously talk to a Robin at Thorn they are really good at bike fit they have frames in different lengths as well as seat heights. Take a look at the website above there is lots of information about their fitting service.
NUKe
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Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 19 Sep 2018, 4:20pm

I would love to go down that route, unfortunately I am a very long way off getting a thorn.

My plan was to try and find a fit with this current frame.
With the adjustable bars, surely I can replicate any frame, can't i?

Then once I have achieved that I can look at a frame I want.
Or am I missing something?

Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 19 Sep 2018, 4:29pm

The problem I have is that I can't find out what is 'normal' or not.

I have decided I shall sell some of my belongings and get a bike fit.
I am a bit concerned that my saddle might not come far enough forward for a correct fit.

I was going to do another post about crank length as I think my sit bone pain is worse at the top of my pedal stroke.
My thigh seems to come fairly high.
So with a shorter crank length, I can raise the saddle a little as well.
I am hoping that it will allow me to tilt my pelvis further forward as well.
I think these will reduce my discomfort.

But by the time I have bought a new crankset, I might as well put the money towards a bike fit eh?

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Xilter
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Xilter » 19 Sep 2018, 8:58pm

Grarea wrote:I am a bit concerned that my saddle might not come far enough forward for a correct fit.



http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/thom ... %7C26273UK

Have you brought yourself to adorn cycle shorts with good padding. Putting my self image aside and giving into some Lycra went a long way to resolve my sitbone pain. And it was bad.
My poor poor bottom

Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 19 Sep 2018, 9:17pm

I have a setback seatpost.
It took that and a 67 degree sta to reduce the weight on my hands.
But did nothing to reduce the sit bone issues.

The position i ended up in was so inefficient, it was totally wrong.
So I have brought it forward to make pedalling easier.
Trouble is, I now have a 67 sta not a standard 72-73 so I mightn't be able to get far enough forward in the fitting.

And, yes, I have some Castelli shorts.
Maybe I should get better ones.
But I keep reading that it is probably position.

What shorts do you have?

I managed to remove the numb feet with a T- shaped saddle (well, that or the fact they are flat, not sure)
If I set right back, it feels so lush removing all the weight off my hands, but it just is so hard work.
When I bring the saddle forward so it feels right for pedalling, my weight is so far forward.(Long torso compared to legs)
Then, I think because my arms are shorter, that adds to it. I spend my time just holding myself back on the saddle.
But at least I can pedal sensibly.
I am pretty keen to get off after a mile because of my sit bones, but that increases to two-3 miles with the shorts.
I think it is worse going uphill.
I have wondered if it is worse because of longer cranks.
As the sit bones feel more pointy at the top of the pedal stroke.
If I had shorter cranks, that would raise the saddle making my knee height lower at the top of the pedal stroke.
(It kind of fits with the fact that my knees feel like they come pretty high)
It also might help with the fact that I feel like I need to rotate my pelvis forward)

So they are my main problems.
It seems to me that I need to put seat back for one thing and forward for another.

Lower because of pressure at back of legs but higher because pointy sit bones and high knees.

I have a very adjustable set of bars to try and make things work.
I have cycled to commute 2 miles each way 5-6 days a week for 14 months.
I have tried taking two weeks off cycling to rest, but it was exactly the same when I got back on again.
It is my only mode of transport so I use it to pop to the hops etc etc.

I think that is most things summarised.

Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 19 Sep 2018, 9:23pm

Xilter wrote:Have you brought yourself to adorn cycle shorts with good padding. Putting my self image aside and giving into some Lycra went a long way to resolve my sitbone pain. And it was bad.


Just in case you missed my question in the last ramble.

Was your sit bone discomfort like sitting on a couple of marbles?
They just feel pointy.
If I lay forward with my chin almost on the bars, they feel much less pointy.

What shorts did you get?
Mine are Castelli. Can't find the model but they have the 'kiss' (annoying name) padding.
Are these considered any good?

I need to get different shorts anyway as they are too tight around the thigh with the elastic and too short in the body.
Even though I got a large.

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Xilter
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Xilter » 22 Sep 2018, 7:34pm

Grarea wrote:
Just in case you missed my question in the last ramble.

Was your sit bone discomfort like sitting on a couple of marbles?
They just feel pointy.
If I lay forward with my chin almost on the bars, they feel much less pointy.

What shorts did you get?
Mine are Castelli. Can't find the model but they have the 'kiss' (annoying name) padding.
Are these considered any good?

I need to get different shorts anyway as they are too tight around the thigh with the elastic and too short in the body.
Even though I got a large.



I have only been cycling for 7 weeks now. I’m not by any means an expert here. But after my first two weeks riding in normal shorts the pain increased daily until I felt like I had fallen out of the back of a van and landed on my rump. It made me wince even trying to sit on the sofa I had to lay down.

Got some

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/dhb- ... 7C603378UK

Took about anothee week af wearing padded Lycra and the pain began to dissipate but I’m all good now. Probably a completely irrelevant experience having further read into your issue.
My poor poor bottom

Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 22 Sep 2018, 7:39pm

Nope, not irrelevant.
I am happy to listen to everyone's experiences in the hope I get comfy.

Perhaps I should look further into shorts.

It is apparently general consensus to get position right first.

I am pretty committed to a bike fit now as I am stuck.
Hopefully he gives me some insights as to where to go next.

Then I think i might have to get better shorts if that doesn't work.
Maybe I am just boney there.

rfryer
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby rfryer » 23 Sep 2018, 6:39am

Hi,

I'm no great expert on bike fit, but can I make a couple of observations?

Firstly, when setting saddle setback to relieve hand/arm pressure, make sure that you are doing it while pedaling at typical levels of effort. The harder you tend to pedal, the further forward your ideal saddle position will be.

Secondly, do take the time to post a picture of yourself on the bike. There are people on this forum who can offer excellent advice about bike fit, but it's very hard to work from a description.

Good luck getting it sorted out.

Grarea
Posts: 340
Joined: 18 Jan 2017, 9:03am
Location: Truro (ish)

Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 25 Oct 2018, 10:50am

Thanks.

This post was all about trying to find out about my leg ratio, but nobody wanted to measure theirs, then the title got changed.
I was then going to move on to asking for help, I was trying to gain some data first though.

I did post some pictures (although somewhat erratically) in the past.
I was getting contradicting responses.
Which was exactly how I was feeling.
I wanted to bring my saddle forward for efficient pedalling, but back to relieve pressure on the bars.

I tried getting back far enough to relieve hand pressure in the hope that it would also relieve saddle sit bone pain.
I was told to get position correct before working on saddle discomfort.

The problem with my photos, I think (In hindsight) is that it looks like I was overreaching.
I was, however, not so much overreaching, but pushing back to hold myself back on the saddle.
So, wedging myself in between bars and saddle. Hard to explain that with a photo.
Also, hard to envisage my short limbs and their effect.
Also, it is hard to achieve ones natural position without a turbo trainer as you have to back pedal to get into position.

Anyway, to my mind, Colin's methods all seemed to make all sorts of sense to me.
I just got stuck at the first hurdle.

The pain in the first two miles makes me just want to get off even after 18 months of cycling.

Anyway, I decided to go for a bike fit.
Instead of moving my saddle back to relieve hand pressure, we moved my saddle forward.
I really have no idea how and why this worked, I shall have to ask him again, but it did.
It didn't work when I was doing it on other frames, I know that.
so, quite what else he did, I am not sure.

This now frees me up to adjust body and bar position.
I know that if I lean much further forward that spreads the load away a bit from just the sit bones (which I think may well just be naturally pointy)
Anyway, he is keen to keep working with me to get me comfortable.

So far so good.

Thanks for everyone's input.
Much appreciated.

Flinders
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Flinders » 11 Nov 2018, 3:29pm

I have short legs for my already short height. (I can look tall people in the eye when siting down, but when we both stand up, I'm face to face with their chest- a tall friend once told me I was the only person he knew who got shorter when they got off a bar stool).

If you have short legs it really is very important to get a bike that can be made to fit, as so many can't. Mine have always been specially built from unusually small or 'special order' frames. It helps a lot if you go to a bike shop where they at least don't try to palm you off with a standard bike (most do, or used to do) and is even better if you can find a shop where someone in the workshop has the same issues, as I did last time, as they will know all the tricks for setting a bike up to minimise the problems.

Grarea
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Grarea » 27 Nov 2018, 10:27am

Flinders wrote:I have short legs for my already short height. (I can look tall people in the eye when siting down, but when we both stand up, I'm face to face with their chest- a tall friend once told me I was the only person he knew who got shorter when they got off a bar stool).

If you have short legs it really is very important to get a bike that can be made to fit, as so many can't. Mine have always been specially built from unusually small or 'special order' frames. It helps a lot if you go to a bike shop where they at least don't try to palm you off with a standard bike (most do, or used to do) and is even better if you can find a shop where someone in the workshop has the same issues, as I did last time, as they will know all the tricks for setting a bike up to minimise the problems.


Yup, I am the same. I am about 5'7" and the same height as 5'10 - 5'11 when sitting down.


So, what I am trying to find out is, do I have short or long femur/short or long lower leg really.
I appear to have short legs, but have no idea if it is top part or bottom part.

Have I got short arms? I think I have, so, do I want a shorter top tube? Or a higher bar?
If I want the standard top tube size, I could go a large bike with a very sloped top tube.

But until I have worked out what I have I don't know where to start really.

When you say you have short legs.
Do you know if you have short femur or lower leg or are they in proportion? (surely this affects your STA required?)
Have you short arms as well?
If so, how do you know?

Then what shape frame have you gone for please?

ANTONISH
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby ANTONISH » 29 Nov 2018, 9:27am

Some years ago Bernard Hinault produced a book on cycle racing which had a chapter on making these measurements.
These were based on the Loughborough university studies.
You need someone to help you.
You would probably find information on line - say "measuring femur length"
I'm not suggesting that you need a full racing position.
You could do worse than "531 Colin's" advice on positioning.

Canuk
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby Canuk » 3 Dec 2018, 8:23am

Over the years I've went through an amazing transformation in bike fit. In my twenties I would only ride 56-57cm straight geometry steel frames. Eventually it dawned on me that they were too big for me, so I gradually caved in and bought a 55cm frame, then a 54cm. Now with carbon in doing the same thing. I started with a 54cm sloping and now find myself riding a 51cm with much better position and comfort.

I don't think you can make ANY bike fit you, too big or too small is going to be a problem, but over time, like me you'll find a sweet spot, the Goldilocks bike, which is just right! :wink:

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foxyrider
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Re: Atypical morphology ( I'm not like other men )

Postby foxyrider » 3 Dec 2018, 10:16am

Canuk wrote:Over the years I've went through an amazing transformation in bike fit. In my twenties I would only ride 56-57cm straight geometry steel frames. Eventually it dawned on me that they were too big for me, so I gradually caved in and bought a 55cm frame, then a 54cm. Now with carbon in doing the same thing. I started with a 54cm sloping and now find myself riding a 51cm with much better position and comfort.

I don't think you can make ANY bike fit you, too big or too small is going to be a problem, but over time, like me you'll find a sweet spot, the Goldilocks bike, which is just right! :wink:


Fashion and changes in knowledge will always mean serial purchasers end up with different bikes. Back in the mists of time we all rode steel and sizing was often haphazard. Back then I rode a 24" frame with a seatpost height of @ 4". My current carbon road bike is a sloping tt 54cm with a lot of seatpost exposed, it looks like a toy compared to the old steel.

However I can still happily ride the steel, the fit is actually almost the same to the mm except at the front where the bars are lower on the new bike - no need to slam the bars to get it low for racing!

Plenty of odd shaped people ride bikes quite successfully, long legged, short armed, male, female, we've all worked out what suits us, there is no magic bullet though.

Generally speaking a smaller bike is more open to getting a good fit (i'm talking 1 size smaller not 4!) you can add longer stems, seatpost, wider bars etc but you can't make a too big bike smaller. Sizing on modern frames can be misleading, 51cm in one brand could be 54 in another - my stable run from 64cm down to 51cm yet they all have almost the same cockpit dimensions. This can be a nightmare when selling, buyers often have a size in their head which despite the evidence doesn't work on modern geometry. I'd need a ladder just to get onto a 64cm modern road bike but I have an old school bike in that size that I can ride quite happily.
Convention? what's that then?
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